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Hellios
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Topic: Viking historical achievements. Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 06:09 |
If any Scandinavians wish to discuss or share their historical heritage, I'm one of the many who know something about your historical achievements.
What I know about your ancestors is mostly about the historical achievements in North America. Perhaps you can give some examples of Viking achievements in Eastern history?
In North America, you were the first European settlers (about 500 years before the other Europeans did it). Fully functional settlements with specialized craftsmen, smiths/forge, carpenters, shipwrights, etc.
An early (980 AD) Viking settlement in the Canadian province of Newfoundland:
Archaeologists found evidence indicating that the settlement was abandoned after an attack by local natives.
Now, how about some examples of Viking achievements in Eastern history?
Edited by Hellios - 13-Oct-2006 at 06:52
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Aelfgifu
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Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 06:38 |
They founded Kiev.
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Hellios
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Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 07:17 |
Originally posted by Aelfgifu
They founded Kiev. |
I didn't know that. I just found a good quality website of the American Museum of Natural History dedicated to the Vikings. You can skip the intro (but I liked it also):
Edited by Hellios - 13-Oct-2006 at 07:33
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Aelfgifu
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Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 07:29 |
If you like books (I always prefer a book myself...):
The Oxford Illustrated History of the Vikings Peter Sawyer ed. is a very good book to get some insight. It deals with all aspects (Vikings in England, Ireland, back home in Scandinavia, Russia, France, Religion, Seamanship, the Viking Legacy and influence on later art and thinking) in nice short chapters, with lots of pics and in a way that makes it very readable to people without a huge knowledge already... ( dont you hate it when writers just assume you know as much as they do?)
Nice site!
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Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears.
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Paul
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Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 08:35 |
They also discovered Constantinople, I believe....
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Goban
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Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 08:59 |
Thanks for the websites Hellios.
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The sharpest spoon in the drawer.
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Joinville
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Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 09:03 |
Well, a "Viking" treasure hoard was discovered just under the Kremlin, during repair work, in 1988.
http://www.viking.no/e/info-sheets/russia/e_kremlin_treasure.htm
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One must not insult the future.
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Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 11:01 |
Vikings greatest contributions were done in Russia and Ucraine, indeed. They crossed the internal rivers of that country trading and conquering.
In a very real sense, Russia was a land colonized by Vikings, and even today there are lots of russians that keep the physical aspect of the ancient norses. Well, if one thinks on the KGB or the Russian mafia, some people believe some russian even preserve the rude manners of the ancient Norse as well
Beside England, France and other parts of Northern Europe, Vikings also settled in North Africa and in Sicily.
Take a look at this site about vikings in Russia
Pinguin
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Gun Powder Ma
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Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 12:08 |
The Vikings or Normans were probably the most dynamic European peoples between the 9th and the 12th century.
Normans had their hands into almost everything then: The exploration of Iceland, Greenland and America in the northwest, of riverways in the Russian steppe in the east. They were mounting attacks on Byzantines, Arabs and steppe peoples from everywhere. On the Byzantines from Russia, from Sicily and from the crusader states. On the Arabs at the Caspians Sea and the Umajjads in Spain. Also in Sicily, lower Italia and the North African coast. Their scope of thinking, planning and executing outdid most others in Europe and beyond.
What is less known is that the Normans were also quite adept at administrative and technological innovation. They made the kingdom of Sicily the first modern European state with an orderly administration, largely built on the Byzantine and Arab example.
Normans in the Normandy were also the first to built cathedrals in a proto-Gothic style, that is with flying buttresses, ripped groin vaults, etc.
They also were said to have primitive iron-clad ships with iron all along the waterline of the hull. For navigation they used a certain stone with which the position of sun can be determined even when the weather is overcast. Their long ships are anyway unrivalled in amphibious warfare and were perhaps even more important for their military superiority on the Russian streams than in the North Sea.
All in all, quite impressive folks. Lot of dynamism, courage, and optimism and diligent pupils, with a keen perception and always willing to learn something new.
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Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 12:50 |
Vikings, Normans or Norse were the most creative barbarians that ever hit the Western Civilization. That's for sure.
The Gothic cathedrals, the iron reinforced longships are some of theirs achievements on technology. Now, for the sun stone topic, perhaps is a myth. However, they invented a "sun compass" which is quite remarkable.
Take a look,
Pinguin
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Aelfgifu
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Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 12:59 |
Originally posted by pinguin
Vikings, Normans or Norse were the most creative barbarians that ever hit the Western Civilization. That's for sure.
The Gothic cathedrals, the iron reinforced longships are some of theirs achievements on technology. Now, for the sun stone topic, perhaps is a myth. However, they invented a "sun compass" which is quite remarkable.
Take a look,
Pinguin
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Gothic Cathedrals? How so? Gothic architecture came into existence in France in the twelfth century, Vikings had nothing to do with it... Perhaps you are confusing the Northmen with the Normans?
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Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears.
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Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 14:04 |
Vikings were those Norse that worked as pirates. Now, some of those Norse settled in France and become the Normands. OK? Those were not Germanic, Celtic or Anglo people, less Gauls or Latins. They were Norse.
Pinguin.
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Hellios
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Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 16:12 |
Originally posted by Paul
They also discovered Constantinople, I believe....
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Wow.
Originally posted by Joinville
Well, a "Viking" treasure hoard was discovered just under the Kremlin, during repair work, in 1988.
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Interesting, does that discovery suggest they might've founded Moscow?
Edited by Hellios - 13-Oct-2006 at 19:48
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Joinville
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Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 17:47 |
Originally posted by Aelfgifu
Gothic Cathedrals? How so? Gothic architecture came into existence in France in the twelfth century, Vikings had nothing to do with it... Perhaps you are confusing the Northmen with the Normans? |
You're quite right.
I've never ever before seen it suggested Normans, much less other Scandinavians, had a hand in the Gohic style.
Unless someone is suggesting Suger, of the St Denis Cathedral, who came up with most of it, for the Greater Glory of God and the kings of France in equal measure, was somehow Norman? I don't think he was,
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Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 18:36 |
Oooops!
Take gothic from the Vikings then
They still have the sun compass and the longship building techniques.
Omar
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Ikki
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Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 18:44 |
I agree, the gothic born in the Ile de France in the early-middle XII century, according with a new religious-ideological movement (the Cster order) and from a feudal society that are expanding quickly because the agriculture richness and a brilliant new born urban life. So, vikings, here very few
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Gun Powder Ma
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Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 18:48 |
None of the architectural elements which came together for the first time in St. Denis and became later know as Gothic style had been actually new. All had been already employed elsewhere, notably in the Romanesque style (groin vaults), in Burgundy (pointed arches) and in...the Normandy whose cathedrals already featured such important features as flying buttresses and ripped cross vaults. Norman Caen is also the first extant cathedral with a double tower facade.
The Gothic of the Ile de France did not invent anything new, they just put together an architectural puzzle which became called Gothic style. The Normans made an important contribution, in fact so important that many English historians of architecture still argue that the Gothic as distinctive style had first appeared in England, notably at the cathedral of Durham.
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Hellios
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Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 19:37 |
Originally posted by Goban
Thanks for the websites Hellios. |
Originally posted by Aelfgifu
Nice site! |
Another high quality Viking site:
It's from the Smithsonian museum of natural history. I suggest when you go in, click on the middle "Viking Voyage" box, and then I recommend the Enhanced entrance (because your pointer can pick up the neat little Viking ship and use it to navigate the map lol):
I also ran into a few articles by some American university students about Vikings from the Canadian settlement visiting the United States (some evidence like rune stones were found) but I won't post those links because I don't think finding some Viking rune stones in the United States is enough evidence to assume they were the first Europeans to visit that country. Rune stones could've gotten to the United States a thousand different ways.
"The Newfoundland Viking settlement's smiths (who smelted & refined bog ore, worked metal, and operated a forge) marked the introduction of the iron age to North America."
Edited by Hellios - 13-Oct-2006 at 22:32
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Timotheus
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Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 00:26 |
They sacked Constantinople once but their ships blew away in a storm so they had to abandon most of it. They tried again a couple decades later and had their fleet utterly destroyed by Greek fire. (Both times the emperor and army were off in Arabia putting down rebellions.)
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 00:50 |
Originally posted by Timotheus
They sacked Constantinople once but their ships blew
away in a storm so they had to abandon most of it. They tried again a
couple decades later and had their fleet utterly destroyed by Greek
fire. (Both times the emperor and army were off in Arabia putting down
rebellions.)
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I believe in the first attack they failed to sack the city, so they
took to plundering the Princes Islands in the Sea of Marmara and parts
of the Bythinian coast.
The second time was during the reign of Romanus I Lecapenus, his army
was indeed off in the east fighting the Muslims, though more in Armenia
and Cilicia, the Byzantines would never see military operations in
Arabia after the 7th century. The Byzantine fleet which sailed out to
meet them was barely a fraction the size of the Rus fleet, but utterly
annihilated it. The captain of the fleet became a practical pop hero
back in Constantinople.
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