Algerian Genocide!!!

Tell it to the Argentinians,they will reconsider the recognition of the Genocide!
Yeah like they care much about genocide. Anyway that is realy boring.

Originally posted by Mortaza My friend there was 10.000.000 armenians at world, dont you think If Turkey killed most of them, they would not have as much people as greeks.(Also we should not forget armenians have one of biggest asimilation rate.)

     There were 4.5 million Armenians at the eve of WWI, over 2 million of which were living in the Ottoman Empire (there aren't even 10 million Armenians NOW!)

well so do you want to tell me, there were more armenians than greeks, and they numbered 40% of Turkey.(Turkey had 12 million people after ww1.)

Edited by Bulldog - 09-Oct-2006 at 15:20

Originally posted by Mortaza well so do you want to tell me, there were more armenians than greeks, and they numbered 40% of Turkey.(Turkey had 12 million people after ww1.)   did not majority of armenians live western armenia(eastern anatolia.)? Because armenian land at anatolia is much more bigger than eastern armenia.

12 millions?
 Considering that Greeks were almost 1.8 millions(1,4 incl in Laussanes treaty),and Armenians quiet the same..+counting Kurds..
this makes Turks a minority in "Turkey's motherland" and independence war -"independence" war.
Interesting....

anyway..believe me,this try of reducing the percentage of armenian killed  sounds really pathetic.what if was 70% or 50% or 30% ?Isnt a genocide?

Anyway...just follow Germany.Thats a good example for u.

Originally posted by Mortaza well so do you want to tell me, there were more armenians than greeks, and they numbered 40% of Turkey.(Turkey had 12 million people after ww1.)

     I'm not talking about after WWI. After WWI there were only a few thousand Armenians in Turkey (mostly in Istanbul). Before WWI, there were over 2 million, most of them living east of the Euphrates.

Originally posted by Mortaza did not majority of armenians live western armenia(eastern anatolia.)? Because armenian land at anatolia is much more bigger than eastern armenia.

     Yes. Ottoman Empire and Russian Empire had almost equal number of Armenians living in them. However, a significant number of Armenians in the Russian Empire didn't live in Erivan (the province...basically modern Armenia), but in other parts of the Russian Empire. In the Ottoman Empire, most Armenians lived in east Anatolia.

Originally posted by bleda 2 millions are u sure please source

     If you check the Ottoman census of 1844 there were 2.4 million Armenians recorded living in the empire. This number went down because of the Abdul-Hamidian massacres of 1895-96 (almost a quarter of a million Armenians were massacred, but it was not genocide, because the aim was not to kill or deport all Armenians, unlike in 1915).

12 millions?
 Considering that Greeks were almost 1.8 millions(1,4 incl in Laussanes treaty),and Armenians quiet the same..+counting Kurds..
this makes Turks a minority in "Turkey's motherland" and independence war -"independence" war.
Interesting.... This is a formal counting not a vague estimation, and even now Turks at Turkey is like 75%. So you are right about your ideas, If you include kurds and other minorities, we had not majority.

You totally missunderstood me. What I want to say is, Ottoman aim was not to kill all armenians, but to protect their lands. (If a genocide is genocide because of aim, ottoman aim was not to kill all armenians.)

The french military archives are open every day except Sunday and Monday from 9am to 17pm, 1 place du fort Ivry 94300.

Edited by Bulldog - 09-Oct-2006 at 15:47

WHAT WAS THE DEMOGRAPHIC DATA BEFORE AND AFTER RELOCATION?

The Armenian committee members always distort and exaggerate the facts about Armenian population before and after the Relocation Implementation. They try to create a basis for their false claims by using war records, official records, church statistics and, reports of foreign missionaries. Some of numbers that is given about the Armenian population in the Ottoman territories are sometimes exceed to the total Armenian population of the Diaspora.

Armenian Population before the Relocation:

There are many different claims about Armenian population in the Ottoman territories; some figures are as follow:

 1.British Annual Register 1917               1.056.000 (1)

2.Patriarch Ormanyan                            1.579.000 (2)

3.The Armenian historian Kevork Aslan  1.800.000 (3) (In �Armenia and Armenians�, Aslan states the Armenian population in Anatolia 920.000, in Clicia (Adana, Sis, Maras) 180.000, in the other Ottoman territories 700.000, total 1.800.000)

4.German Priest Johannes Lepsius       1.600.000 (4)

5.Cuinet                                                            1.045.018 (5)

6.The French Yellow Book                       1.475.011 (6)

 7.The Armenian historian Basmajian    2.280.000 (7)

 8.Patriarch Nerses Varjabedyan              1.150.000 (8)

Official Ottoman census statistics are as follows:                            

The Ottoman Directory of Statistics was founded in 1892 The first director of the branch was Nuri Bey. Between 1892-1897 a Jewish Ottoman, Fethi Franco was appointed for the duty. From 1897 until 1903, an Armenian director was in charge, called Migirdic Shabanyan. Later, Mr. Robert an American was appointed (1903-1908). Between, 1908-1914 Mehmet Behic was the general director. (9)

As it is seen, in a very chaotic period when the Ottoman government was facing with the Armenian Issue on the international arena, the Ottoman Statistics were under the control of foreigners. At this point, the Ottoman statistics should be considered as the most objective documents about the Armenian population living in Ottoman territories.

* Ottoman census statistics for 1893            1.001.465

* Ottoman census statistics for 1906            1.120.748

* Ottoman census statistics for 1914            1.221.850 (10)

An evaluation of the three sources clarifies that, during the First World War, the Armenian population in the Ottoman territories was approximately 1.250.000.

The numbers of the Armenians, subjected to relocation was controlled from their departure until their arrival, between June 9, 1915 and February 8, 1916. The figures below are taken from pertinent Ottoman documents (11):

Adana (2)	14.000	15-16.000
Ankara (Central)(3)	21.236	733
Aydin(4)	250	-
Birecik(5)	1.200	-
Diyarbakir(6)	20.000	-
D�rtyol(7)	9.000	-
Erzurum(8)	5.500	-
Eskisehir(9)	7.000	-
Giresun(10)	328	-
G�rele	250	-
Aleppo(11)	26.064	-
Haymana(12)	60	-
Izmir(13)	256	-
Izmit(14)	58.000	-
Kal�acik(15)	257	-
Karahisari sahib(16)	5.769	2nd 222
Kayseri(17)	45.036	4.911
Keskin	1.169	-
Kirsehir(18)	747	-
Konya(19)	1.900	-
K�tahya(20)	1.400	-
Mamuret�laziz(21)	51.000	4.000
Maras(22)	-	8.845
Nallihan	479	-
Ordu	36	-
Persembe	390	-
Sivas(23)	136.084	6.055
Sungurlu	576	.
S�rmene	290	.
Tirebolu	45	.
Trabzon(24)	3.400	.
Ulubey	30	.
Yozgat(25)	10.916	.
TOTAL	422.758	32.766

Same time as what? If you're talking about WWI, thats very wrong. There were only couple of hundred thousand Armenians living outside Ottoman Empire and Russian Empire before WWI. It was only AFTER the "relocations" that there were millions of Armenians abroad.


Edited by Mortaza - 09-Oct-2006 at 15:38