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    Posted: 09-Oct-2006 at 13:44
Originally posted by Bulldog

There was a will to erase Algerians off the face 2,345,000 hectars of land taken off Algerians and handed alot of the time for free to French settlers.
 
Its overestimated really, well others say its not.


Source? As far as I remember several Algerians joined the French and no one ever said there was a will of cleaning the "Algerian genome" out of the surface of earth.
 
Are you sure your not a Turk, they also say the same, see the ironyConfused


Yes I am, the main difference is they are in denial when we have world support. They also put as excuse the context of the war and that the Armenians were traitors that favoured the Russians just like the Nazis accused the Jews of supporting communism.
 
Says you, Algerians who feel exploited, robbed, a victim of genocide both physical and culutral definately don't feel its a misuse of the term "genocide".


When we talk about words' meaning, there is no opinion that matters. Only interpretations, the word "genocide" clearly refers to a systematic extermination of a population by all means. Which didn't happen in Algeria. I don't see from this meaning we go to "cultural genocide", it's just nonsense. Next you could say the death of the Dodos was also a genocide.
 
What has the state done, where are the monuments to the victims, the official recognition of these crimes, compensation to the victims some who are still alive.


There is a commemoration plate in Paris, not a monument proper but the  day following it's settlement there were riots in the France-Algeria football match.

I agree it's not enough though, and more should be done, definately. Yet, to claim as you did there is a "taboo" is wrong. There are discussions here and, unlike the Turks, we don't charge people doing so.

 
Algeria disagrees and in the 2,345,000 of land taken from Algerians they claim there was a systematic ethnic cleansing taking their land and giving it to French settlers, as well as killing one in six Algerians.


Their president is pretty much a populist clown. I would like to see clear evidences there was an ethnic cleansing.

Mind you, I am, through my mom, from a family of Pied-Noirs and they were solid opponents to the occupation (although they were there for generations) so they are certainly better placed than you are. The native population of Algeria was indeed trampled on and exploited, and there were slaughters in the war, but no purpose of erasing them from earth. Which a genocide is about.
 
Again, its not taboo, Orhan Pamuk wasn't arrested or even put on trial, people are not arrested for sayin there was a Genocide. The official view is there was no genocide.


There was though an Armenian Genocide.

Here is a map of the countries that recognised the Armenian Genocide.




Can you show me the equivalent for the Algerian Genocide?

Algeria says it was a genocide, your not the "one" who has the ultimate decision on what did and didn't happen, you may feel its not a genocide but Algeria does.


It doesn't matter what Algeria feels or no, a genocide is the systematic extermination of a population. That wasn't the case, doesn't matter how much you're trying to argue around that. The concept of "cultural genocide" also doesn't make any sense.
 
Its becomming a taboo matter and also France is trying to pass a law making it prisonable to say Armenian Genocide didn't happen.


Definetaly no, the debate is 100% open here, but yet no one can prove there was a genocide in Algeria. It's not that archived are closed or censored, all witnesses are welcome.

Negationism, or deny of the holocaust, is a crime in France. A crime against memory, which is exactly the same case than about the Armenian Genocide. And it's not about the Armenians or no that are feeling it was a genocide. It was one, simply.
 
Oh and France isn't too happy about the allegations about its role in the Rwandan Genocidel, Rwanda holds France responsible.


Responsible through passive supports, but yeah responsible.
 

"The French supplied weapons; they gave orders and instructions to the perpetrators of genocide," he said.

"The French were there when the genocide took place. They trained those who carried it out.

"They had positions of command in the armed forces who committed the genocide.

"They also directly participated in operations by putting up roadblocks to identify people by ethnic origin, punishing the Tutsis and supporting the Hutus."

Journalists who covered Rwanda in the early 1990s reported that French peacekeepers appeared to side with the Hutu government and against the Tutsi-based Rwandan Patriotic Front, led by Mr Kagame, which had been responsible for an armed incursion into Rwanda in 1990 from exile.

In at least one case, French troops moved United Nations peacekeepers away from a college where they were protecting 2,000 Tutsis. After the peacekeepers were moved, the Tutsis were slaughtered. Mr Kagame said the police report blaming him for Mr Habyarimana's death was a politically motivated attempt to deflect blame from France.

"In '91 or '92 I was in Paris at the invitation of the authorities and an official said to me, 'If you do not stop the war, by the time you arrive in Kigali you will all be dead'.

"I never forgot those words which are proof of the involvement of the French government, or of certain elements."


Passive support, the French forces didn't join the slaughter. I suppose we could hear the version of those UN soldiers since they were present when the French moved them out though.
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Looking at this map you see how much Turkophobe is the world! This anti-Turkish conspiracy must stop now!


French = Turkophobes
Armenians = whinning babies
Italian = islamophobe catholics
Germans = nazis
Poles = islamophobe catholics
Swedes = turkophobes
Swiss = Armenians
Greeks = turkophobes christian turks
Russians = stalinists
Argentina = Nazis that left Germany
Tennesse = confederatist rednecks
Califonia = islamophobe terminators

And so one (sarcasm BTW).


Edited by Exarchus - 09-Oct-2006 at 13:52
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Posts: 3711 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2006 at 14:12

For the colony this is a stupid comment. Belgium had only one and they killed one million people. But of course as they weren't muslim you don't give a damn.

I didnot say something like this. Maybe you are not talking with me. Infact I care not just christians but armenians, and I said before Turkey resettle them to their homes.

Well you should also consider the legal history of your country and wonder where your constitution and your civil law comes from (Tongue).

I dont think what is relation between history of turkish law(taken by europeans), and idea of law that france accepts now.(We are not discussing history of france or turkish law.)

Infact If I am not wrong, French historians were against the laws france passed.
 
It is interesting France parliment write history not france historians.  It looks like these people lost their job as historians, so you should give them job at parliment. After all your parliment is doing historian jobs. It is a fair deal.LOL
 
Err. I though we were all well aware of the fact that none of the three governments involved were fighting for the Human Rights or any higher goal but strictly for their interest.

am I wrong or France is talking about greater good and human rights? are they lier? so do you accuse ankara? maybe you should first accuse France.

France was not intent on killing all the muslims of Algiers...which means that by definition, the massacres in Algiers can not be termed Genocide.
 
Ottomans were not intent on killing all armenians at Turkey(That the reason why there were a lot armenians after independence war) which means that by definition, the massacres at eastern anatolia can not be termed genocide.
. Or are there just some brainwashed Turkish nationalists here who repeat every forecooked nationalist argument presented to them?

At least they tried to show some argument, what you did is not even an argument but accusation.

2. I don't think Turkey is in a position to complaing about freedom of speech when in Turkey people are prosecuted for admitting there was a genocide.
 
Prosecuted? who is prosecuted? how many of them prosecuted? Plus If Turkey has no right to complaing about freedom of speach, holland has not too. So both of us should be quite?
 
Exactly, the massacres were horrible and large in scale (yet nothing to be compared to what happened to the Armenians). But no policy of systematic cleaning.
 
Infact what france did is more systematic than Ottomans did. In Ottomans It was a civil war, people killed people.(Not only soldiers.)
 
In france, All killing were planned by france goverment. An other important point, Turks thought that Armenians were a danger to their nation and home place.(are they right or not is an other question.) But when It comes to france, It is related with money. So Infact France is more quilty.
 
Turkey doesn't want to recognise a Genocide that is one and call it massacre and goes as far as putting a taboo on it and jailing people for insult to the Turkish nation.
 
Unrelated, It is totally another discussion about insulting Turkish nation. Plus Infact It is france who prosecute a historian that says that there was no genocide. Maybe we are not living same world.
 
 
If Europeans (and especially French Big smile ) are so ugly, dirty and bad, as you seem to think, why do you want to join them in EU?
 
Because of money, not because they are handsome or beatiful.
 
Europe doesn't need Turkey, why do you think that Turkey need to join EU?
 
Europea doesnt need Turkey? So why is she still trying for Turkey? himm.Wink

French hasn't even done remotely enough to deal with it's dirty past in Algeria, but at least France has aknowledged something happened, unlike Turkey.
 
You mean something happened at eastern anatolia? I dont remember France accepted a law about algeria.
 
 
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French = Turkophobes
Armenians = whinning babies
Italian = islamophobe catholics
Germans = nazis
Poles = islamophobe catholics
Swedes = turkophobes
Swiss = Armenians
Greeks = turkophobes christian turks
Russians = stalinists
Argentina = Nazis that left Germany
Tennesse = confederatist rednecks
Califonia = islamophobe terminators
 
So do you want to tell me that all of this people know what happened to armenians? I am sure more than 50% of their people have no idea where is armenia.
 
Or well maybe I am wrong, It looks like argentina people have great interest over Caucasian politics.LOL
 
Anyway, You still does not point, did you? law has no relation with history. You cannot create history with laws.
 
 
 
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Posts: 760 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2006 at 14:22
Originally posted by Mortaza

So do you want to tell me that all of this people know what happened to armenians? I am sure more than 50% of their people have no idea where is armenia.
 
Or well maybe I am wrong, It looks like argentina people have great interest over Caucasian politics.LOL
 
Anyway, You still does not point, did you? law has no relation with history. You cannot create history with laws.
 
 
 


If there is one thing that is exposed in this thread, it's the Turkish denial not the French hypocrisy Confused.

Do you seriously believe the world is full of Armenians conspiring against the Turkish integrity?

Yeah, these places did recognise the Armenian Genocide. Now accept it or no, you're more and more isolated, that pathetic attempt to move the debate by accusing France of an Algerian Genocide prove how insecure the Turkish elite is.

PS: As comming from a family of Pied-Noir (mother side) I can affirm you no one wanted to kill all the Algerians, the progressive wanted to give them egual rights and the far right wanted to exploit them (the imperialist way, like all Empires including the British and Ottoman ones did). You don't kill the people you want to exploit, that's just dumb.
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Posts: 2120 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2006 at 14:39
Originally posted by Bulldog

 
There was a will to erase Algerians off the face 2,345,000 hectars of land taken off Algerians and handed alot of the time for free to French settlers.
 
Says you, Algerians who feel exploited, robbed, a victim of genocide both physical and culutral definately don't feel its a misuse of the term "genocide".


Stelling land is defently a bad thing  but calling it a genocide... I'm sure 6 million Jews would have been delighted to have their land robbed. And BTW the term "cultural genocide" was coined for the Eastern European yiddishland because all the Yiddish speakers were dead or in exile. I hope you'll appriciate the difference.

Originally posted by Bulldog


Algeria disagrees and in the 2,345,000 of land taken from Algerians they claim there was a systematic ethnic cleansing taking their land and giving it to French settlers, as well as killing one in six Algerians.


I'd love to hear Algeria speaking LOL
French occupation of Algeria was defently terrible but if you want some ethnic cleansing just see the figures: 1954, 1.3 million of Pied Noir (Europeans in Algerian actually majoritarily Spanish or Italian) 1963: less then 10,000. I'm being the devil's advocate but this deserved to be said. (of course they weren't killed they just went to France).

But tell me how many Israeli went to live in Germany a decade after the war? In France you have over 1.5 million Algerian nationals (not including the French of Algerian origin). Maybe they're coming volontarily to be ethnically cleaned?


Originally posted by Bulldog

Algeria says it was a genocide, your not the "one" who has the ultimate decision on what did and didn't happen, you may feel its not a genocide but Algeria does.


Once more, I've got more Algerian mates and relation then you'll ever have and I've never heard the term genocide in their mouth...
 


Originally posted by Bulldog

Its becomming a taboo matter and also France is trying to pass a law making it prisonable to say Armenian Genocide didn't happen.


That would be a disgrace, I think. Hope it won't happen.

Originally posted by Bulldog

Oh and France isn't too happy about the allegations about its role in the Rwandan Genocidel, Rwanda holds France responsible.
 


Relation with the core subject?

Originally posted by Bulldog

As I said you can criticise Britain if you wish but the fact remains, that all these countries today are developed and developingSmile
 


Well currently the only thing developing in Uganda is AIDSDead

Originally posted by Bulldog

You should do some more reading, Barbaross was invited, he fought along with Barbary fleets. There were Arab leaders and Berber leaders, Turkish language wasn't enforced, another religion wasn't enforced, Algerian property wasn't taken, waves of settlers didn't occupy Algerians land, Algeria was not exploited.
 
Sorry but no colonialism.
 
The Official view of Algeria regarding Ottoman history is a positive one, it doesn't call it colonialism.
 
 
I do not care here about the official view. Roman invasion of Gaul was colonialism as well and still it is seen as positive...

As you can see in AE magazine I am pretty well aware of what going on in the Mediterranean in the early modern period. Just one argument to make my point and then I'll suggest you to read the description of Algier by le Pre Dan before going any further:
The only way for Turks to join the usually European raised troops called Janissaries was to go to Barbaria where they would behave more or less like kings only check by the christian-born pirates. In these condition Arabs and Berbers were totally dominated in their own city.

 
Originally posted by Bulldog

Nope but it had far greater benefits than French colonialism did.


NO! WE WERE BETTER!
-NO! IT WAS US!
- NO.
- NO.

Impressive mate
 
Originally posted by Bulldog

Oh and "legal sucessor", hmm let's have a think about it, Turkey was founded by revolution and the old ruling elite and Sultanate was abolished and extradited.
 


At best it is a naive statement. Wasn't Kemal himself one of the most successful general of the previous regime? But maybe he managed to recreate totally a bureaucracy which neither the French in 1789, the Russians in 1917 or the Germans in 1933 and 1945 managed to do.

You're constantly dening and then you're making stupid mistakes that undermine your arguments.
 
Originally posted by Bulldog

Turkey doesn't deny many Armenians were killed, it denies a genocide was comitted.
 


And? No problem with that (don't answer it is forbidden).
Originally posted by Bulldog


The Algerian state does, calling their leader corrupt is merely your subjective view, unless you can bring hard evidence you have found about him being "corrupt" it will remain subjective.


No he is not corrupt, he is just taking money. Oh and beside he just practices murder and torture at a large scale. Come on the FLN is one of the most corrupt organizations in the world. The fact they hold the power tight since 1962 proves it.


 
Originally posted by Bulldog

Hey mamikon even Armenian historians are disgusted with France and have told France to adress its own issues before meddling in others.


I'm afraid they may be right
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There cant be a comparison between the 2 cases.

Its sure that France opressed ,and killed many Algerians ,but this of course does not mean Genocide.
s mentioned nobody wanted to exterminate Algerians (and then what ?fill in all Sahara desert with French colonists?)
On the other hand ,following the revolution of the New Turks in 1908,despite the declarations for more freedom,and after the loss of Balcans,turkish governments adopted a policy of turcification,or extermination minorities.

Genocide of the Armenians was part of this policy.
Transfer of all male population between 15-60 of Greeks of western Anatolia towards "working camps" in Eastern part (equaled the death of a great part) another one.
Genocide of Pontians another one.

Its obvious taht these were not just "separate incidents" ,but part of a greater plan.
This is called Genocide.
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argentine ,uruguay california have large armenians group
canada and america have large armenians and greeks diaspora.
and i dont know australia accept  fake armenians genocide
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Posts: 407 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2006 at 14:46
Originally posted by bleda

argentine ,uruguay california have large armenians group
canada and america have large armenians and greeks diaspora.
and i dont know australia accept  fake armenians genocide


..Pathetic.
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hey brainstrom 3 millions balkan turks killed by bulgar serb and greeks for pure ortodoks balkan
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If there is one thing that is exposed in this thread, it's the Turkish denial not the French hypocrisy Confused.

It looks like meaning of thread chances acordance who read it. Infact what I saw is french hypocrisy. Like saying algerian genocide should be discussed by historians, but armenian genocide should be accepted by french parliment.(even when french historians were against that law.)
 
Turkey should not prosecute someone because he accept armenian genocide,(And turkey dont do it.) France should prosecute someone If he refuse armenian genocide.(Again historian of french is against to this law.)
 
Do you seriously believe the world is full of Armenians conspiring against the Turkish integrity?
 
Well Infact armenians have some problem with Turkey, but I dont think world is full of armenians.
 
But what do you think about french historians? are they conspiring against the law system of france?
 
Yeah, these places did recognise the Armenian Genocide. Now accept it or no, you're more and more isolated, that pathetic attempt to move the debate by accusing France of an Algerian Genocide prove how insecure the Turkish elite is.
 
Indeed, but I dont think we are realy isolated that much, and I dont know why you accuse Turkish elite for something. They are not doing something that has not been done by france.
As comming from a family of Pied-Noir (mother side) I can affirm you no one wanted to kill all the Algerians, the progressive wanted to give them egual rights and the far right wanted to exploit them (the imperialist way, like all Empires including the British and Ottoman ones did).
 
Indeed, and we dont want to kill all armenians, we just want to be sure to have a country that is not divided by armenians. So tell me which is worse? Killing a part of people for money, or killing a part of people because you afraid from them. I dont know why, but I think killing for money is not more ethic.
 
Anyway, If I am not wrong, Genocide does not mean to aim to kill all people, but killing some part of a nation is genocide.
 
do you agree with me about interest of argentina people over  Caucasian politics or history?
 
 
 

 
 
 


Edited by Mortaza - 09-Oct-2006 at 14:51
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Originally posted by Brainstorm

Originally posted by bleda

argentine ,uruguay california have large armenians group
canada and america have large armenians and greeks diaspora.
and i dont know australia accept  fake armenians genocide


..Pathetic.

use google
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Posts: 3711 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2006 at 14:50
Its sure that France opressed ,and killed many Algerians ,but this of course does not mean Genocide.
 
France killed algerians because of money, and Turkey killed for fear of armenians.(Or acording to you, for lands.)
 
Even I accept your theory killing some part of a nation for money is not better than killing for land.
 
It is still genocide. (Turkish aim also was not to kill all armenians, or there wont be 600.000 armenians after independence war.)
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Originally posted by bleda

hey brainstrom 3 millions balkan turks killed by bulgar serb and greeks for pure ortodoks balkan



3 millions? Confused
when ? 1912-1923 ?
Isnt quiet fast?LOL(considering that Balcans where under Ottoman occupation since 14th century,till 1913)
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Stybrion
You are wrong about the Nazis - the Nazi leaders were extradited (or rather executed or imprisoned), the ties were cut and a totally separate state was founded.

The only difference is how this totally new state was founded which is, frankly, quite irrelevant.
 
Nope, not at all.
 
Germany was defeated in WW2, thoses leaders were extradited by non-German forces, the Nurnenberg trials were set up, a new state was later founded, the guilty Nazi leaders were charged.
 
So its again totally different.
 
Ottomans were defeated, Ottoman officials were tried in Malta, the treaty of Sevres was drawn up after WW1, AtaTurk and his comrades didn't accept it fought an independance war. Overthrew the Ottomans, extradited them and set up a completely different country.
 
There is no similarity what-so-ever.
 
 
Exarchus
Yes I am, the main difference is they are in denial when we have world support. They also put as excuse the context of the war and that the Armenians were traitors that favoured the Russians just like the Nazis accused the Jews of supporting communism.
You have world support? I don't think so, its not Internationally Recognised, some countries have agreed there was a genocide and left it at that.
 
Also, Turkey will recognise the Algerian Genocide, other coutries may follow suite, after many countries recognise the Algerian Genocide will that make the case stronger.
 
Another figment of your immagination is the Nazi comparison. Jews had no arms, no army, no millitary training by Russians, no aspirations of a Jewish state in Germany, never attacked German towns or cities, never had gangs pillaging Germany's country-side.
 
Armenians did have arms and trained armed gangs and regiments serving the Russian army.
 
This is widely accepted, if you get a map of the era you'll realise Russia had entered the Caucaus and up till todays Turkish borders, the Armenians in those newly occupied terrotories collaberated with the Russians.
 
The French trained and armed Armenians in the "Hatay" region, called Cicillia by Armenians and they fought aswell.
 
These arn't baseless accusations there hard facts.
 
This doesn't excuse the fact that many Armenians were killed either, neither does it excuse the many Turks and Kurds killed in the region.
 
Oh and if you want Nazi comparisons...
 
Mr Bouteflika said Algeria had "never ceased waiting for an admission from France of all the acts committed during the colonial period and the war of liberation."

And he shocked many in France when he drew a direct comparison between the burning of thousands of Algerian bodies after the massacres with "the ovens of the Nazis."

BBC
 
 
 
Edouard Sablier, for instance, one of the soldiers who took part in the repression, later described the situation: Everywhere in the towns there were camps surrounded by barbed wire containing hundreds of suspects who had been arrested Often, when we set out to inspect an isolated hamlet in the mountains, I heard people say, We should punish them by taking away their crops.......A paper called Oh Partisans, published by the French Trotskyists, described Stif as an Algerian Oradour. Oradour was a French town where the Nazi occupiers had murdered over 600 people, including children.
 
 
 
Exarchus
When we talk about words' meaning, there is no opinion that matters. Only interpretations, the word "genocide" clearly refers to a systematic extermination of a population by all means. Which didn't happen in Algeria. I don't see from this meaning we go to "cultural genocide", it's just nonsense.
 
Says you, Algeria says it did and in areas populations were systematically exterminated. Why is "cultural genocide" nonsense? your not a victim of it who are you to tell victims of it that it's nonsense.
 
Exarchus
I agree it's not enough though, and more should be done, definately. Yet, to claim as you did there is a "taboo" is wrong. There are discussions here
 
Why are the French archives on the matter closed then? jeez even Turkey opened the Ottoman archives.
 
There are discussions in Turkey aswell, what's your point, its not any different.
 
 
Exarchus
I would like to see clear evidences there was an ethnic cleansing.
 
Algeria's indigenous population was decimated in the early years of French settler colonial rule, falling from over four million in 1830 to less than 2.5 million by 1890. Systematic genocide was coupled with the brutal suppression of Algerian cultural identity. Indigenous Algerians were French subjects, but could only become French citizens if they renounced Islam and Arab culture. A ruthless policy of acculturation followed, and the remaining Algerians were forced to cease speaking their native Arabic and use the French of their colonial masters instead. The indigenous Muslim population of Algeria was not permitted to hold political meetings or bear arms. They were subjected to strict pass laws that required indigenous Muslim Algerians to seek permission from the colonial authorities to leave their hometowns or villages.
 
Ahmed Ben Bella
 
 
 
 
Exarchus
There was though an Armenian Genocide.

Here is a map of the countries that recognised the Armenian Genocide.
The map prooves nothing, its not Internationally accepted that there was a Genocide, its never been approved by International courts.
 
In a few years, after Algeria starts pushing hard for recognition of the Algerian Genocide and some countries accept will this be evidence that it happened, common don't be so naive.
 
It doesn't matter if the entire world accept this, if Turkey doesn't accept it and sort it out with Armenia it means nothing.
 
 
Exarchus
It's not that archived are closed or censored, all witnesses are welcome.
Oh sure...
 
Amar Bakhouche reacted that France did not apologize for massacres it committed in Algeria and it keep the archives related to that period closed. He said the greatest majority of archives related to that period were brought to France and they were kept closed. "They are not open for French and Algerians. We urged to immediately open them for public" he said.
 
The audacity of it, even Ottoman archives are open.
 
 
Bulldog
Oh and France isn't too happy about the allegations about its role in the Rwandan Genocidel, Rwanda holds France responsible.

Exarchus
Responsible through passive supports, but yeah responsible
 
Passive? training, arming, supporting and being directly involved is not "passive support", if that's your idea of passive I'd hate to see what's aggressiveDead
 
And in Chad, Benin, Gabon.............. all these will be bought up, France is opening its can of worms.
 
 
Brainstorm
(and then what ?fill in all Sahara desert with French colonists?)
You think Algeria is just a barren wasteland dessert, you obviously don't know Algeria, it has a Mediterranean coastline, lush green valleys, and huge Gas reserves one of the worlds' largest.
 
 
Brainstorm
Transfer of all male population between 15-60 of Greeks of western Anatolia towards "working camps" in Eastern part
 
Is this guy serious, man go read about WW1, Greece and Turkey agreed on a population exchange, Greeks didn't go "East", they went "West" to Greece,
 
 


Edited by Bulldog - 09-Oct-2006 at 15:04
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Posts: 283 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2006 at 14:56
Originally posted by Brainstorm

Originally posted by bleda

hey brainstrom 3 millions balkan turks killed by bulgar serb and greeks for pure ortodoks balkan



3 millions? Confused
when ? 1912-1923 ?
Isnt quiet fast?LOL(considering that Balcans where under Ottoman occupation since 14th century,till 1913)

from 1885 to 1912
 20 years ago only 300000 turks escape from bulgaria
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Posts: 2120 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2006 at 14:56
Originally posted by Mortaza

Infact If I am not wrong, French historians were against the laws france passed.


Which law? The one about the holocaust? Most historian supported it at the time but now most of them have changed their mind. Concidering Armenia, to be frank, nobody gives a s***.

Originally posted by Mortaza

am I wrong or France is talking about greater good and human rights? are they lier? so do you accuse ankara? maybe you should first accuse France.

Nobody's first. Both behave stupidly.

 

Originally posted by Mortaza

Infact what france did is more systematic than Ottomans did. In Ottomans It was a civil war, people killed people.(Not only soldiers.)
 


"In fact" you do not have a clue about it. No shame just admit it. You're just forgetting that THERE WAS A (CIVIL/INDEPENDENCE) WAR IN ALGERIA...

Originally posted by Mortaza

In france, All killing were planned by france goverment. An other important point, Turks thought that Armenians were a danger to their nation and home place.(are they right or not is an other question.) But when It comes to france, It is related with money. So Infact France is more quilty.


ClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClap

There was a WAR going on. So yes it was planned by the government! Yes the infamous policies destined to torture "terrorsits" in Algier and to "punish" the villages protecting guerrila fighters in the country were taken in Paris. Yes it is degusting, yes it is criminal, yes the decisions were made easier because the people concerned were Arabs (the fact they were muslim was totally secondary as one of the most important Algerian organization was communist and that the FLN was as socialist as muslim...) but it is the cost of WAR!
I am a free donkey!
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Posts: 3711 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2006 at 14:57

The thing I did not like all about this issue is, Turkey reaction to France. It is disgusting our goverment choose a way unjust and we dont like. I dont think we should take france as a good example.

It is acceptable to attack Turkey(Infact she is doing wrong.), but It is not acceptable when people are attacking Turkey, they are protecting france.
 
Anyway, I hope Turkish parliment will chance his idea about algerian genocide.
 
 
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Posts: 407 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2006 at 14:57
Originally posted by Mortaza

Its sure that France opressed ,and killed many Algerians ,but this of course does not mean Genocide.
 
France killed algerians because of money, and Turkey killed for fear of armenians.(Or acording to you, for lands.)
 
Even I accept your theory killing some part of a nation for money is not better than killing for land.
 
It is still genocide. (Turkish aim also was not to kill all armenians, or there wont be 600.000 armenians after independence war.)


Killing people for money?
Where they making purses of Algerian people's skin?
-Seriously-None imperialistic western Country of 19-20th cent,intended its cheap "worker/farmer-slaves" to be exterminated.

As for 600.000 survivors of 2.000.000....are u so proud of that?Confused Thats less than 30 % of a nation's population survived ...well done!
Tell it to the Argentinians,they will reconsider the recognition of the Genocide!Smile
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Posts: 407 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2006 at 15:01
Originally posted by bleda

Originally posted by Brainstorm

Originally posted by bleda

hey brainstrom 3 millions balkan turks killed by bulgar serb and greeks for pure ortodoks balkan



3 millions? Confused
when ? 1912-1923 ?
Isnt quiet fast?LOL(considering that Balcans where under Ottoman occupation since 14th century,till 1913)

from 1885 to 1912
 20 years ago only 300000 turks escape from bulgaria


And they returned to Bulgaria.
Before 40 years 200.000 Greeks escaped from Turkey.And never came back.
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