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Cities of great contributions to mankind - Edited.
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Poll Question: Which City has contributed more to the civilization of mankind?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
2 [5.71%]
16 [45.71%]
2 [5.71%]
3 [8.57%]
2 [5.71%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [2.86%]
9 [25.71%]
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vulkan02 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1835 		  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Cities of great contributions to mankind - Edited.
    Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 09:08
Sparta also deserves to be one of the nominees on that list as it contributed a lot of ideas as well, such as system of government (check and balances), professional military, eugenicsWink, socialism, equality of sexes etc. There was a famous saying in ancient Greece by an athenian politician that Athens would be remembered 10 times more for what it really was and Sparta 10 times less.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 09:38
I would like to clarify concepts. First, all civilizations have cities, otherwise they would not be civilizations.
 
Now, for the point of which city has contributed the most, one should make different rankings.
 
(1) Which cities have contributed more to particular civilizations or nations:
London to England,
Moscu to Russia,
Bombai to India,
Mexico city to Mexico,
 
etc.
 
(2) Which were the technologically more advanced cities of their times:
Alexandria,
Rome,
Cordoba,
Florence,
Paris,
 
(3) Which cities has been the core of human culture and science:
 
Athens,
Alexandria,
London,
Silicon Valley.
 
As I see it we are talking of different rankings for the same topic. Jesuralem, for example, it is key to understand the religions of the "west": Judaism, Islamism and Christianity, but it was not the capital of an empire, advanced in technology or science, or outstanding in arts.
 
Cities served different purposses and they were not alike.
 
Pinguin
 
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Posts: 271 		  Quote Tipu Sultan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 12:05
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Tus (city of hundreds muslim scientists)

Chemistry: Jabir Tusi (Geber)
Known as the Father of Chemistry, wrote more than one hundred monumental treatises; developed methods of crystallization, distillation, calcination, sublimation, evaporation and instruments; discovered several minerals and acids.

Mathematics: Sharaf ad-Din Tusi
The greatest mathematician of the 12th century, founder of method for approximating the root of the cubic equation and inventor of the linear astrolabe.

Astronomy: Nasir ad-Din Tusi
One of the greatest astrologers in the world, produced a very accurate table of planetary movements and a star catalogue. He pointed out several errors in Ptolemy's models based on mechanical principles and modified it. He pioneered spherical trigonometry.

Literature: Ferdowsi Tusi
The greatest Persian poet, author of the Shah-nameh ("The Book of Kings"), the masterpiece of Persian national literature.

Politics: Nizam al-Mulk Tusi
The greatest muslim politican, author of the Seyasat-nameh ("The Book of Government"), one the best manuals of political theory and administration.

Theology: Ghazali Tusi (Algazel)
Founder of Sufism, author of the Ihya' 'ulum ad-din ("The Revival of the Religious Sciences")


Mausoleum of Harun ar-Rashid in Tus (The greatest Abbasid caliph)



excellent post brother.too good i am really impressed with you.
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Posts: 1929 		  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 14:49
I would definatley nomiate some of the other Sumerian and Mesopotamian cities as high on the list such as Kish and Uruk. These cities were pracitically the 1st. Also Monjeno-Djaro- that famous Indian city, a member of the Indus valley civilization (or so I believe) which is also a center of civilization and culture.
 
...And don't forget to include Sparta, because as Plutarch points out that people would believe Athens to be the greatest Greek city because of Pericles monunments and building spree- and that Sparta would not be considered the greatest simply because of its' appearence. The big three- Athens, Sparta and Corinth have all been great contributors to humanity. Epirus, Thessoloniki, Byzantium, Halicarrannus, Sardis and Xanthos. It is a common misconception that Athens was the finest- architectually, perhaps but don't forget the simple fact the politically, in their later stages, they declined- Pericles warned that Athens could survived the Pelopennesian war if they concentrated on defense and not attack, which they did not because of large scale corruption. Also, Sparta controlled Greece for years to come after Athens' eventual defeat, simply read Xenophons' anabasis to show testament of this.
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Posts: 28 		  Quote Celestial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 17:51
Yo it is Istanbul for about 100 years. It was called Constantinople until 29 May 1453. Learn history.
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Posts: 1933 		  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 19:14
Originally posted by Celestial

Yo it is Istanbul for about 100 years. It was called Constantinople until 29 May 1453. Learn history.
 
Yes, we all know that here, but we also like to call cities by their original names as well.
 


Edited by Hellios - 08-Oct-2006 at 03:01
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Posts: 398 		  Quote Preobrazhenskoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 19:49
Hellios,
 
After reading my post on the last page, you aren't considering replacing Beijing with Chang'an instead? And what about Pataliputra? Or Baghdad?
 
Eric
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Posts: 2967 		  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 20:02
How about Salamanca? That city I think was the most intellectual city in Spain, and it is really pretty too
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Posts: 1933 		  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 21:44
Originally posted by Preobrazhenskoe

Hellios,
 
After reading my post on the last page, you aren't considering replacing Beijing with Chang'an instead? And what about Pataliputra? Or Baghdad?
 
Eric
 

Preobrazhenskoe and Ponce de Leon,  I've given up on the idea of a top 10 list for cities that have "contributed most to mankind".  I've learned through this thread that there are too many deserving contenders.  The Editor won't let me add more voting options & I don't want to change options that people have voted for already.  Most impressed I was with ancient Ur.

 


Edited by Hellios - 06-Oct-2006 at 21:47
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 23:02

Please don't forget the cities of the Americas,

Teotihuacan, a very advanced city in engineering terms.

It was build in the middle of a lake, and all the transport of load was done by canoes. The water was driven by acueducts.

 
It was the most impressive city in the Americas. A lot bigger than anything the Spaniards saw before
 
 
It was located at the certer of the lake
 
 
A map of the times of the conquest.
 
mapa_tenochtitlan_1524
 
Today very few remains of Tenochtilan have been found underground in Mexico city.
 
Pinguin
 
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Posts: 1933 		  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 23:31
Pinguin, those are magnificent renderings, thanks very much, friend.  Truly amazing that ancient city in the middle of a lake, with an advance system of water management like that.
 
I love accurate "before & after" images of very ancient (ruined) cities that where once Great.  For example:
 
Knossos Palace today:
 
And how it was in 1600 BC:
 
What time period are the renderings you posted?
 


Edited by Hellios - 07-Oct-2006 at 10:44
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Posts: 373 		  Quote perikles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2006 at 04:12
Good photos Helios. Knossos have even from that time druing systems(if the spelling is wrong please be my guests)
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Posts: 1929 		  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2006 at 04:17
Yo it is Istanbul for about 100 years. It was called Constantinople until 29 May 1453. Learn history.
 
Don't insult me, Celestial- I LIVE in Istanbul for part of the time! ...And why would I need to "learn history" if I am on a historical forum? Also, one mistake is hardly proof that I need to "Learn history".
 
...I just wanted to call it constantiople because that was when the city really started to thrive. Also, you are flawed in thinking that it was named Istanbul since 1453, it has been called many names since, Islambul for one! The sizeable Greek community (around 60% until the 1920s) also called it "Konstanoupoulis", is that right Perikles?
 
Ah yes Perikles! Knossos! Excellent Choice!
 
I would also include Thebes (Egyptian) just looking at the sheer majesty of the Egyptian civilization


Edited by Earl Aster - 07-Oct-2006 at 04:19
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Turkali Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2006 at 05:25
Tabrez was a major city in middle east.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2006 at 09:50
[
Originally posted by Hellios

Pinguin, those are magnificent renderings, thanks very much, friend.  Truly amazing that ancient city in the middle of a lake, with and advance system of water management.
... 
What time period are the renderings you posted?
 
 
Except for the map, that is from the period of the conquest of Mexico, the others are modern reproductions of the city, most of which lays now underground Mexico city. The descriptions are always from the time Cortes invaded Mexico, at the beginning of the 16th century.
 
During the building of Mexico's subway in the 60s the downtown was found, and today even the great temple has been located. Cortes and his chronists and engineers, recorded several details of the city, like the systems for transporting water (conducted through tubes and not open aqueducts).
 
 
Pinguin
 
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Posts: 1933 		  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2006 at 10:54
Hi Pinguin.
 
Thanks again for your info.
 
One has to really wonder what the world would be like today if some of these magnificent civilizations were left alone to continue developing.
 
I've been to Mexico & saw the ancient Mayan city of Chichen Itza:
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Hellios - 07-Oct-2006 at 11:31
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Posts: 398 		  Quote Preobrazhenskoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2006 at 13:51

Great pics you guys. I've been to Chichen Itza as well, Hellios, it was actually very impressive, although I would have liked to see the temples at Tikal as well. I'm glad that Earl Aster mentioned Thebes as well, since ancient Egypt has no representation up there. Like you said though, Hellios, they won't let you change the voting ballot.

 
Eric
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2006 at 14:26
Originally posted by Hellios

Hi Pinguin.
 
Thanks again for your info.
 
One has to really wonder what the world would be like today if some of these magnificent civilizations were left alone to continue developing.
 ...
 
Well, If they were left alone, I believe by now the Mesoamerican and Andean culture have already met each other, perhaps accelerating development and commerce. Llama carivans would be in Central Mexico by now, and metalurgy and writing would be widespread.
Perhaps by now they would had achieved something like the Greece intellectual revolution of the 5th century B.C., and interesting improvements in navigation and transport would had happened already.
 
At the time of the conquest the Inca empire was the biggest state, I believe other states would be in place compiting, fighting and trading with them. And with commerce progress starts.
 
To advance more, though, they need to develop abstract mathematics, axiomatic geometry, algebra, precision astronomy, alchemy, mechanical machinery, iron metalurgy and ship building. Topics that were underdeveloped at those times in the Americas.  The Ancient Americas were about 2.000 years behind Eurasia in technology, that's for sure. The Ancient American Empires were at the same level of Egypt, Ur or Knossos, but one can't compare them in tech or science to the Classical Greeks.
 
Spaniards, after all, brough a real technological revolution to the Americas with the comming of the horse, cows (milk, chesses), wheet, rice, paper, alphabet writing, iron and the technologies of theirs times.
 
Now, for favorite cities (not the greatest or biggest but perhaps one of the most amazing) I love Macchu Picchu)
 
 
  
Pinguin 
 


Edited by pinguin - 07-Oct-2006 at 14:35
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Posts: 1933 		  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2006 at 03:13
 
Dear all who've posted in this thread so far,
 
Your time/effort was not a waste.  I've made major changes, and have managed to include just about every city that you nominated up to now during the thread.  Please have a look.  I hope this makes up for the unfairness of having excluded so many deserving cities.
 
Best wishes.
 
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Posts: 398 		  Quote Preobrazhenskoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2006 at 04:02
Nice, Hellios, now that's the way to do it! The regional grouping was a good idea, I couldn't have done it better myself really.
 
Good thinking,
Eric
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