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Greco-Roman vs. Han Chinese Extant Architecture

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  Quote Gun Powder Ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Greco-Roman vs. Han Chinese Extant Architecture
    Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 11:56
Hi, there has been recently another round of mutual charges of cultural centrism in the thread 'Why was Europe first'. That time it evolved around architecture. Luckily, although we might have disagreed about certain thesises and ways of interpretation, we all enjoyed at least the numerous pics. That is what I like - philosophizing about whether blonde or dark-haired chics are more sexy, while all the time having a close look at them both! LOL

So why don't we put one's money where one's mouth is and get some things permanently settled? Here, I am going to post a thread with pics of extant Greco-Roman architecture, trying to give an overview of its essence, look and technique. I will restrict myself to the period of 600 BC to 600 AD. At the end, I will give my personal conclusion - based on the evidence.

You in turn are invited to do the same with contemporary Chinese architecture. Then we make a comparison. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to post pics and not to explain why you do not post them. We are looking here for evidence, not excuses.

In no particular order:


Lighthouses








The Tower of Hercules (Torre de Hrcules), in northwestern Spain, is almost 1,900 years old. The ancient Roman lighthouse stands near La Coruna and is 57 metres (185 feet) in height. It is the oldest working Roman lighthouse in the world. The current facade was reconstructed in the late 18th century in neoclassicist style and works like a shell to the Roman original, which can be still visited in the interior.

Note the strong resemblance between Roman lighhouses and Western Islam minarets (Marrakesh; Giralda in Seville, Sultan Hassn Mosque in Casablanca).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Hercules




Churches


Sant'Apollinare in Classe, Ravenna, Italy. Early example of Byzantine art. Constructed in the 6th century, the Campanile later. Inside there are marvellous Byzantine mosaics.

Note that church construction only could begin after Christianity was recognized by the Roman Emperors in the famous Tolerance Edict of Milan in 313. Before, Christianity was an underground religion with little access to state resources and little inclination to erect conspicuous buildings. Therefore, we are lucky to have such an early example surviving. The strong similarity of the structure to the traditional Roman basilica is evident.




Domes






Pantheon, Rome, Italy.
Constructed between 118 and 128 AD under Emperor Hadrian. The diameter is 43.2 meter, comparable to Christian and Islamic domes erected more than a millenium later.

The Pantheon is the first dome structure and can be rightly called the Mother of all Domes. Whether Hagia Sophia, Taj Mahal, St. Peter, or the Washington Capitol, all derive ultimately from this archtype.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheon%2C_Rome


Palaces


Diocletian Palace, Split, Croatia. Old-age residence of Emperor Diocletian (284-305 AD), the first to split the empire into two parts for administrative reasons. Later, the city of Split - today the second biggest in Croatia - evolved from the palace as nucleus when the Romance population fled into the confinements of the building during the time of the Slavic infiltration.




Theatres


Theatre of Ephesus, Agean Coast, Turkey. Ephesus was one of the biggest cities in Asia Minor both in Hellenistic times and under the Romans. Later, the harbor silted due to the nearby Maander, despite the reccovering efforts of population, and Ephesus became deserted. Some of the population moved for defensive purposes to a nearby hill next to the  remains of the Artemision, one of the 7 World Wonders.



Theatre of Leptis Magna, Libya. Constructed in 193 AD by the Roman Emperor Septimus Severus. Septimus severus was born in Leptis Magna and when he ascended the throne after overcoming three other rivals, he gave special attention to his home town and province, initiating an ambitious building program and announcing tax exemptions. At the time of the Arabs (642 AD), the city was almost empty and sand dunes began to cover the splendid remains. Only in modern times, Italian archaeologists started the excavations of the city area.




Basilicas


Basilica of Constantine, Trier, Germany. Constructed at the beginning of the 4th century AD. The building is 67 meter long, 27.2 wide, 33 meter high. The basilica was originally a large hall used for ceremonial and representative purposes by the Roman emperors. Its special architectural significance stems from the fact that the basilica served as blue print for the cross-shaped (Western) Christian church, thus ultimately becoming one of the hallmarks of Christian civilization. Greek Orthodox churches, in contrast, have a "+" shape with equal side lengthes.


Interior. Note that this building had been originally not a church, but a pagan ceremonial building. Still, you can see typical Christian elements like the semi-circular apsis.

In the interior you can find by the way the baptismal certificate of a certain Karl Marx, who was converted from Judaism to the Christian faith by his mother at the age of 4.




Bronze Sculptures



Bronze equestrian statue of Marc Aurel, Rome, Italy.
C. 175 AD. This sculpture is the only surviving bronze statue of a pre-Christian Roman emperor in Rome and one of only three in the whole Roman realm. The reason for its preservation is that the then Christianized Romans thought him mistakenly for the first Christian emperor Constantine (4th century AD) and not for the pagan Marcus Aurelius.

Marcus Aurelius is also remembered as the 'philosopher on the throne' for of his still extant works on the philosophy of Stoics which stresses the virtues of wisdom, justice and moderation. As an anecdote, he used to upset the Roman populace by reading books during gladiatorial fights, perhaps indicating the beginning of a shift in the moral values of the time.

Note the right hoove lifted. This was from an technological point of view no easy feat because its static implications. In the Middle Ages, Marc Aureel's statue became one of the models of European bronze sculpture and was only really surpassed in the later Renaissance when artists succeeded at building  bronze statues with the horse standing on both of its backhooves high in the air!




Bridges


Vaison La Romaine, France. erected in 149 BC, it is the oldest surviving Roman bridge and perhaps the oldest still extant stone bridge in the world.


Alcantara, Spain. Erected c. 105. Span of Arches 27m respectively 28m. 50 meter above the normal river level. 71 meter overall height.

Without comment.




Wall gates


Porta Nigra, Trier, Germany. Construction about 180 AD. Literally 'Black Gate'. For unknown reasons, never been really completed by the Romans as can be easily seen even by the untrained eyes. Functioned in the Middle Ages as church and town gate. Napoleon ordered in 1804 to tear down the church in order to restore the original state.

Trier reached its heyday in the fourth century AD when it became, due to its proximity to the Germanic border, briefly the capital of the fourth part of the Roman Empire (the eastern and western part were again administered by substitutes off the two emperors). Today quite a lot of Roman remains can still be seen, making it one of the most interesting tourist sites north of the Alpes for aficionados of Roman architecture.




Wall Towers


Roemerturm (Roman Tower), Cologne, Germany. Presumbly 3rd century AD. The ornaments point to Frankish workers. The Roman Tower had been originally part of a complete Roman wall around Cologne. Today, with the medieval wall dismantled in the 1880s it remains a solitaire.




Apartment Buildings


Roman Apartment Building at Ostia, the harbour of Rome, Italy. These buildings, also called insulae, were according to Wikipedia up to 7 and 8 stories high (I did not yet countercheck the info, I have been always going with four stories so far).  Whatever its exact height, they were complety outstanding achievements of Roman civilization, giving it a surprisingly modern look. AFAIK nothing comparable exists in other ancient cultures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulae


Model of Insula at Ostia.




Shopping Malls


Trajan's Markets, Rome, Italy. Construction period: 107-110 AD. It would not go too far to call them the first shopping mall ever: 'the upper levels of the market were used for offices while the lower part, in front of Trajan's Forum, had shops selling all kinds of food.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markets_of_Trajan


Trajan's Markets Interior Hall. Note the segmental arches which were here favoured over the typical Roman semi-circle arch.


To be continued....



Edited by Gun Powder Ma - 29-Sep-2006 at 23:06
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  Quote Gun Powder Ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 11:57
Tunnels


Tunnel of Eupalinos, Samos, Greece. Constructed around 550-530 BC, supposedly on the order of the island's tyrant Polykrates. The tunnel is 1036 meter long and was carved into solid limestone through a mountain. The purpose of this tunnel was to connect the city of Samos with a spring which was situated just on the opposite side of a mountain.

Why was the tunnel carved through the mountain instead of going around the outside? Probably because Polykrates felt that a  conspicuous aqueduct would have left the city's water supply too vulnerable to besiegers.

What makes the tunnel so special? Apart from its sheer length, this ancient tunnel is the first known in history where two separate teams advanced from both ends of the tunnel.*1 This technique requires meticulous planning and equally meticulous excavating work, even today where it has become the standard method of constructing tunnels. It has been calculated (Tom Apostel) that a mere deviation of only 2 degrees from the ideal line would result in the two crew being at leat 30 meters apart at the proposed junction. As it was, the Greek architect Eupalinos achieved a difference of merely 60 cm in elevation at the junction of the northern and southern tunnel! Water could flow in a straight line from the source to the city reservoir through the tunnel.

Interestingly, the tunnel was first described by Herodot who praised it as one of the greatest miracles he had seen. Later, knowledge of the tunnel was apparently lost. It was only due to a re-reading of Herodot's enthusiatic praise, that the tunnel was rediscovered in the late 19th century! Today, the tunnel can be visited by non-claustrophobic tourists.

*1 The tunnel of Siloam in Jerusalem predates the Eupalinos tunnel by 200 years, but the two crews probably worked their way along an existing underground watercourse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eupalinos (see links below, especially Tom Apostol (PDF): http://pr.caltech.edu/periodicals/EandS/articles/LXVII1/Apostol%20Feature%20(Samos).pdf)




Treadwheel Crane


Roman Crane, Reconstruction 1989, Bonn, Germany. How were the engineering feats of the Greeks and Romans possible? The invention of the crane by the Greeks at the end of the 6th century BC greatly facilitated the moving of heavy loads. The Romans eventually added the treadwheel to the crane, thus greatly multiplying its loading capabilities.

For a comparison: It has been estimated that it took 50 Egyptian workers to elevate a 2.5 t block at the Pyramids. In contrast, the biggest Roman treadwheel cranes  could lift up to 6 tons with a mere two persons in the treadwheel! This means that per person a Roman crane could lift 60 times as much as the Egyptian worker!  The crane in the pic could lift in an experiment 5 tons 8 meters in the vertical and horizontal plane.

Source: Hans-Liudiger Dienel & Wolfgang Meighoerner: Der Tretradkran, Publication of the Deutsches Museum, Muenchen, p.13ff.




Triumphal Arches


Arch of Septimus Severus, Forum Romanum, Rome, Italy. 204 AD. This kind of arches were meant for purely ceremonial and propaganda purposes. As it was Roman custom, the victorious general or emperor moved through the gate, lauded and praised by the people as saviour of the nation. This arch was erected on the occasion of recent Roman victories against the Parthians.

Note the inscription above. The Roman letters still look exactly like modern capital letters - after 1800 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_of_Septimius_Severus




Tombs


Tomb of Cecilia Metella, outside Rome. Built in the first half of the first century BC along the Via Appia it had been for eons a prime landmark for visitors coming to and from Rome. Diameter of 20 m. Later it served as fortress as still can be seen by the crenellations.



Mausoleum Hadriani, Rome, Italy. Built 135-139 AD as tomb for emperor Hadrian. Later used as papal castle and site of many sieges.




Public Toilets


Public flushing toilets, Ostia, near Rome, Italy. Probably the single most important invention since the wheel, the Romans definitely knew how to spend a good time.  Remains of Roman flushing toilets have been found all over the empire, making the assumption safe that they were ubiquitous in the Roman Empire. Notably, Roman fortresses have featured them regularly, even at the very periphery of the empire (Housesteads, England; Dougga, Tunisia), making hanging out in the public toilet a favourite past-time of legionaries and auxiliaries alike.




Hypocaustum


Caldarium from the Roman Baths at Bath, England.



Workings of a Hypocaustum. Largely self-explanatory. The trick was to lead the hot air from the fire site in such a way as to enable as much contact as possible with both the floor and the walls.  Hypocaust work at a very high degree of efficiency, with 90% and more. They are real floor heatings, a feature seen not even today in most modern households.

After the invention of blowing glass in the first century AD, some caldarium already featured even double glazed glass windows!




Aqueducts



Segovia, Spain. Built around the turn of the first to the second century AD. Maximum height 28.5 m. The aqueduct provides water for the city which is located on a plateau.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segovia_Aqueduct


Athens, Greece. View from the Acropolis. Creative chaos.




Limes


Hadrian's Wall, northern England. The Hadrian's wall protected the northern frontier of Roman Britain against the Celti tribes in what is now Scotland. It was constructed presumbly on the personal order of Hadrian after a visit to the Isle in the 120s. The construction took about 10 years.

Looking to the casual eye more like an overdimensional garden fence, the Hadrian's wall actually constituted probably the most advanced linear border defensive system all the way until the construction of the Ming wall 1400 years later. The wall was built entirely out of (lime-)stone and extended for 117 km with an average height of 5-6 meter and a width of 2.5-3 meter. The wall was backed by 14-17 full-sized forts, each holding between 500 and 1000 auxiliaries. Besides, it featured 320 watchtowers, and 80 gates guarding at regular the space in between. In the rearside, special marching camps and even practice camps were found.

A curious thing is that the parapet, being 50 cm wide, was barely walkable. This suggests that the limes was primarily not meant to be defended from atop the wall like a common city wall. Rather, the wall must have served as backing for the stationed Roman troops. Although not perfect, it outdid other contemporary defensive system which were usually simple rammed earth affairs or at best dry stone walls with no parapet at all.

In addition to the curtain wall, the Hadrian limes also featured at its forefront a broad ditch, and at its backside a military road and the so-called vallum, that is two huge banks with a ditch between, marking the military zone.

The Hadrian Wall can only be understood as part of the overall Roman border defensive system. Among those are the Limes Arabicus alone had a length of 1500 km. In addition, several thousand kilometers of so-called river limes (Rhine and Danube) protected the northern frontier with a continuous string of watchtowers, fortlets and military ways. Also the Antonine Wall and the comprehensive defensive systems in Tunisia, Libya and Mauretania.

The Upper-Germanic limes which featured ultimately stone towers and a continous wooden palisade. The Raetian limes even a 3 meter high stone all besides the usual forts, and fortlets, watch towers, military ways and communication techniques.

All in all, the Roman limes was the most modern linear defensive system of its time and clearly outdid all other ancient border defenses, notably the Chinese wall, not only in terms of quality, but also quantity. The Hadrian Wall,in particular probably unsurpassed in its sophistication until early modern times.

Follow the course of the Hadrian Wall: http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=55.013325~-2.33025&style=h&lvl=17




Greek Temples



Greek Temple at Segesta. Around 420 BC. Dorian Style. The interesting thing is that actually Segesta never was major Greek power or mercantile center. Nonetheless, its citizen were able to construct such a huge building within 10 years, which is a remarkable feat, even though the temple was for unknown reasons never completed.



Vaults


The vault is an immensely important feature of architecture. Until the 19th century the arch and vault were the only alternative to the far more limited post-and-lintel system supporting a flat or peaked beamed roof. Again, Greco-Roman architects showed great proficiency here, being the first to use huge vaults in a regular manner, and thereby laying a crucial foundation to the later construction of Christian churches and Muslim mosques.






Maxentius Basilica, Rome, Italy.


What to say? Note that the surviving part actually only constitutes less than a third of the original basilica. Yep, you read right. The original basilica was more than three times as huge. This is only the remaining left side wing...




Thermae


Aerial view of Caracalla Thermae, Italy, Rome. Constructed 212-216 AD. "The bath complex covered approximately 13 hectares (33 ac). The bath building was 228 meters (750 ft) long, 116 meters (380 ft) wide and 38.5 meters (125 ft) estimated height, and could hold an estimated 1,600 bathers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baths_of_Caracalla



Mosaic floor, Caracalle Thermae, Rome, Italy. Even the chicks go crazy.




Harbours



Aerial view of Trajan's Port, near Ostia, Italy.
Early 2nd century AD. The hexagonal basin was designed as an enlargement of the already enormous Claudius port (today silted) which proved to be too small in the Golden first century AD.


Plan of the Trajan Harbour.

Note that it was actually the mucher smaller basin, while the earlier Claudius was equipped with a light house and huge breakwaters reaching into the sea. The enormous harbour system became necessary due to the insatiable demand of Rome for grain. Grain carriers of up to 1000 metric tons carried corn from all corners of the Mediterranean to the capital, establishing a bustling maritime trade network.




Water Mills



Remains of the Barbegal water mills. Dated now into the early 2nd century AD, the whole complex featured 16 overshot water wheels which were erected at the slope of a hill. An aqueduct brought water from a nearby river to the top of the hill, from where it entered through a rock cut gap into two mill-races with 8 overshot wheels each.

The Barbegal complex has been sometimes called the biggest pre-industrial complex. The overall output of grinded corn had been estimated to be enough to feed the whole populace of Roman Arles with 350 g bread per day each, that is 16.000 people.

Source: Andrew Wilson: Machines, Power and the Ancient Economy, in: The Journal of Roman Studies, Vol. 92., 2002, p.12


Model of the Water Mills at Barbegal, near Arles, France. Note that the vertical overshot wheels were the most efficient way to harness water power.

The watermill was an invention of the Greeks. The first literary evidence appears in the 1st century BC, but recent scholarship by M.J. Lewis shows convincingly that the 3rd century BC is a more probable date (a passage in 3rd century BC writer Philon where he writes about various types of water mills had been mistakenly taken for a later Arab interpolation).




Stadiums


Stadium at Aphrodiasis, Asia Minor, Turkey. According to Wikipedia "it is said to be probably the best preserved of its kind in the Mediterranean." It measures 262 by 59 m. A construction date I could not find out, although I have been there once. Beautiful, still place in the midst of nature and nothing. Recommendable for its strong combination of nature and history.




Libraries


Library of Celsus, Ephesus, Turkey. 125 BC. Reconstructed facade with the ancient stones lying around. According to Wiki once place of 12.000 scrolls. The library is situated only a stone throw away from the theatre posted above.




Friezes


Pergamum Altar, Berlin, Germany. Originally from Pergamum, Turkey. Constructed in the 2nd century BC by the hellenistic kings of Pergamum, a close ally of Rome. The frieze epicts the monumental battle between the Gods and the Titans of Greek mythology.


Close shot. Strictly speaking, the Pergamum frieze does not belong to architecture, but to the art form of great sculpturing. However, the frieze was part of an altar at the Acropolis of the city.

What is so special about the frieze? It is the way how the figures are sculptured. Thus far, Near Eastern reliefs have always depicted smooth and flat figures with little profile. The Pergamum frieze however shows the Gods almost three-dimensional, almost disconnected from the frieze wall behind, thus achieving more plasticity and liveliness of the figures. AFAIK this way of sculpturing was previously unknown anywhere else and thus constitutes a genuinely new facet of stone art.




Amphitheatres


Interior view of Colosseum, Rome, Italy. Built in the 70s AD. What one can nicely see here are the underground chambers from which the wild beast and gladiators were heaved by huge wooden elevators into the arena.




Breakwaters



Breakwater at the ancient city of Samos, modern Pythagorion, Greece. Alright, here I am at a loss, because I am aware of only a single extant Greco-Roman breakwater. The mole of ancient Samos, already mentioned by Herodot in his 'Histories'. However, to be precise, only the foundation remains of ancient Greek origin, whereas the superstructure is modern.

Anyway, breakwaters were another speciality of Greco-Roman engineering, Encarta even attributes the whole invention of breakwater to the Greeks. Anyway, the dimensions were by any means huge. The mole of Alexandria, to give a single example, connected the mainland with the isle of Pharos, being 1600 meter long.



City Walls


Aurelian Walls, Rome, Italy. Constructed rather hastily during the crisis of the third century by the capable Roman emperor-general Aurelian. Before, Rome had been for centuries basically an unwalled city, sufficiently protected through the gladius of the legionary and the pax romana. The wall was 19 km long, protected by 382 towers and featured 18 city gates.

Note that the towers still do not protrude as far as is the case with medieval walls, thus limiting for archers the possibility of flanking fire. On the other hand, the walls were originally additionally protected with an extensive system of ditches (where the parking lot is now), proteichisma called. This front end defense acted as further obstacle to siege machines and particularly to keep the walls themselves out of reach of the catapults.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurelian_Wall



Paved Roads


Paved Street, Pompeii, Italy. Pre 79 AD. Impeccable stone pavement. In other pics, you can see still deep grooving in the pavement, left by heavy cart use.



Crosswalk, Pompeii, Italy. Pre 79 AD. Note the strong resemblance to the cover of the Beatles album 'Abbey Road'. Roman cultural influence transcending the ages.



Via Appia, between Rome and Capua, Italy. Constructed 312 BC by the Roman censor Appius Caecus. The Romans built paved roads on an absolutely unparalled level. In terms of quantity and quality, the Roman road system was probably only matched until quite recently. Even today, quite a few countries still feature lesser road systems.


Via Domitia, southern France. 118 BC. The building of Roman roads often started as soon as a territory was conquered and 'pacified'. In the case of this road there was a span of less than 20 years after the area had been incorporated into the empire.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_road



Dams




Proserpine dam, Merida, Spain. Along with the nearby dam at Cornalvo,  the Proserpine dam is still in use, roughly 1900 years after its construction! The Proserpina dam is located about 10 km north of Merida and was build in the first century AD. It is 427 m long, 12 m high and is on top 2,3 m broad. It is a earth dam covered with bricks, has two bends in the crest and nine buttresses on the inner side of the dam. Two inlet towers are placed on the inside of the dam construction. The water was transported to Merida through a 10 km long aqaeduct which entered the town by means of a aqueduct bridge over the river Rio Albarregas.

Dams of the Roman Era in Spain: http://traianus.rediris.es/textos/presas_in.htm


Roof Tiles

Canals

Forts

Mines

Granaries




Edited by Gun Powder Ma - 16-Oct-2006 at 18:06
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  Quote Gun Powder Ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 11:58
This space is reserved for the conclusion.
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  Quote Gun Powder Ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 12:52
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  Quote Preobrazhenskoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 14:01
Thank you Gun Powder Ma, this is no doubt an excellent post for displaying a lengthy collection of Greco-Roman architecture. However, I think I see what you're getting at with Chinese architecture before 600 AD, a very convenient date to choose considering that in the 7th century, many of China's Tang Dynasty monuments were converted from the old style of wooden-timber construction to stone and brick, thus allowing them to last longer throughout the ages (for anyone who has no idea what I'm talking about, look towards the thread in this forum called Why Was Europe First? Posted by our member Siege Tower).
 
For a comprehensive look at Chinese architecture of rammed earth fortification and wooden-timber construction, which seems to dominate the Chinese landscape before the 7th century, I would suggest the book called Chinese Architecture, by Xinian Fu, Daiheng Guo, Xujie Liu, Guxi Pan, Yun Qiao, and Dazhang Sun, edited and expanded by Pennsylvania Professor Nancy Steinhardt. This has detailed accounts of the wooden structures, palaces, bridges, etc. that were lost to us because they were made primarily out of wood, not stone or brick like the materials so widely used in Europe beforehand in the Greco-Roman tradition. Sadly, all that is left of the Han Dynasty are written descriptions, depictions from tomb murals and frescos, some rammed earth foundations for palaces and rammed earth fortification city walls, towers, and gatehouses, a select few stone walls, and I'd say the majority of what we get from that era in China comes from the Han Dynasty burial tombs, which have plenty of their own merits and awesome relics to paint the picture of their past.
 
 
Eric


Edited by Preobrazhenskoe - 29-Sep-2006 at 14:11
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  Quote Gun Powder Ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 15:31
Originally posted by Preobrazhenskoe

THowever, I think I see what you're getting at with Chinese architecture before 600 AD, a very convenient date to choose ...


600 AD is a good endpoint as any, because it marks the transition from Roman to Byzantine architecture, while in China the second unified Chinese state arises with the Tang. Moreover, we have discussed post-600 AD architecture already in the other thread. So again, no excuses, please post evidence.
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  Quote Siege Tower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 15:43
another european patriotist, are you trying to tell us that europeans were supurior to Chinese/ eastern asian culture?
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  Quote Preobrazhenskoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 15:44
Excuses? I made an excuse? Lol.
 
Eric
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  Quote Siege Tower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 15:48
hello Gun powder ma, you see, what distinguises human spiecy from other animals is that human can reason, so if you can t be reasonable, than what are you?
here's a good site for beginners:http://newton.uor.edu/Departments&Programs/AsianStudiesDept/china-art.html


Edited by Siege Tower - 29-Sep-2006 at 15:50
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  Quote Preobrazhenskoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 16:03
Thanks Siege Tower. I like this drawn representation of the different typographies of the tulou rammed earth/clay building structures:
 
 
But of course, the real examples:
 
 
However, the site says these are proven to be no older than the 13th century, with speculation that some might be older.
 
Eric
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  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 16:43
 
 
This is a Ceramic model of a han dynasty Watchtower or House.
Unusually the multi storied houses were usually for poorer people.


Edited by BigL - 29-Sep-2006 at 16:46
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  Quote Preobrazhenskoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 16:45
Although it's not as impressive as the statue of Marcus Aurelius, here's an Eastern Han Dynasty (23-220 AD) bronze-cast horse with his front hoof up. Lol. It was found in the tomb of Leitai in modern-day Gansu Province, amongst 80 other bronze horses, alongside little chariots and escorts, and represents the "Heavenly Horse" of Ferghana, as opposed to the smaller Mongol pony horses the Chinese were accustomed to before the reign of Emperor Wu. 
 
heavenly horses image
 
But of course, the large Terracotta horses of Qin Shi Huang's 3rd century BC tomb are more impressive.
 
Eric


Edited by Preobrazhenskoe - 29-Sep-2006 at 16:53
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  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 17:00
Han Dynasty Zoom In 3 
A massive example of Chinese<br>funerary sculpture in the form of<br>a fortified walled villa from the<br>Han Dynasty 206BCE-220CE<br>CONTACT GALLERY FOR DETAILS
 


Edited by BigL - 29-Sep-2006 at 17:01
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Preobrazhenskoe View Drop Down
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  Quote Preobrazhenskoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 17:01
Cool models, BigL, where did you find them? I'm guessing the last model is one reserved for the home of a rich family, if the taller buildings were meant to pack commoners.
 
Eric


Edited by Preobrazhenskoe - 29-Sep-2006 at 17:08
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  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 17:21
Well i had a model of some watchtowers in my book illustrated history of china, i was trying to find that image so i did a google search .
 
But i think the Rich lived house with a courtyard and garden
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 19:12
Thanks for the info's, i really wondered how far the chinese architecture whas improved in ancient times.

If they say "roman empire" to a beginner he remembers the architecture style's and some buildings or maybe some emperors in west. But about china it is a big "?".

So thanks for sharing it
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  Quote Hrothgar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 19:19
go European barbarians!


Edited by Hrothgar - 29-Sep-2006 at 19:20
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  Quote Gun Powder Ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 21:11
Originally posted by Siege Tower

another european patriotist, are you trying to tell us that europeans were supurior to Chinese/ eastern asian culture?


That is a bit rich for someone who wrote a few days ago this sinocentric bollocks:

"since we all know that in the begining of the 15th century, europe was very primative compare to Ming empire in eastern asia..." (http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14829&KW=&PN=1)


If you feel that ancient Chinese architecture has anything comparable to show, please feel free to go ahead. But with pics, facts and figures, not just with empty words.
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  Quote Kids Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 22:23
Hrothgar is also being bias/Eurocentric toward Chinese culture; see his posts from the following:
 
 
"One simply cannot compare the quality and quantity of European sculpture/architecture with Chinese.  Heck, I lived in Lausanne for a year and that small city in Switzerland alone has more architectural heritage than displayed in all of Beijing"
 
 
 
"In terms of architectural heritage and works of art i think Europe has no peer.

i went to China two summers ago and really, outside of the tourist traps of the Great Wall, the forbidden palace, and some museums, there's really nothing noteworthy"
 
 
"I don't see what the big fuss about Chinese pagodas is, when there are
so many beautiful estates and castles in Europe that often you just hiking french country side you can find an abandoned one.  Here's what a quick google example brings up.
My opinion, architecture was much more celebrated in the west than in the east."


Edited by Kids - 29-Sep-2006 at 22:27
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