Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Who was the oldest Turkic commander
 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Mosquito View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 05-Aug-2004
Location: Sarmatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2537 		  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who was the oldest Turkic commander
    Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 17:38
As im really interested in Turkish history please tell me who was the oldest turkish commander ever commanding on the battlefield.
 
Regards
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Back to Top
DayI View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 30-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2408 		  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 18:36
i think it would be a chinese name, sorry really i once heard of an 1000 bc (or older) xiongnu commander or khagan's name in chinese. Chinese is somewhat difficult, strange and hard to remember it. 
Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı
[IMG">http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg">
Back to Top
Mosquito View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 05-Aug-2004
Location: Sarmatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2537 		  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 19:07
The oldest Turkic commander had chinese name?
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Back to Top
flyingzone View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 11-Dec-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2630 		  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 20:11
Mos, I don't think he had a Chinese name (BTW, I have absolutely NO idea who he was). He unquestionably had a Turkish name. However, written records of him could probably only be found in historical Chinese documents. This is in fact the case with a lot of the neighbouring cultural/ethnic groups surrounding China because these groups did not have a literary history as strong as that of China.
 
So his name would be a Chinese rendering of his Turkish name.   
Back to Top
DayI View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 30-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2408 		  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 20:55
Originally posted by flyingzone

 
So his name would be a Chinese rendering of his Turkish name.   
correct.
Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı
[IMG">http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg">
Back to Top
barbar View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar
retired AE Moderator

Joined: 10-Aug-2005
Location: Italy
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 781 		  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 09:04

Not necesseraly there is only Chinese documents to refer. There are Turkic legends. Alp Er Tunga (might be the same person Efresiyap as mentioned in Iranic legends) might be the first Turkic leader. Tuman Tengriqut (the first Hun leader) might also be considered as the first greatest ruler.
Either make a history or become a history.
Back to Top
DayI View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 30-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2408 		  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 11:45
Originally posted by barbar


Not necesseraly there is only Chinese documents to refer. There are Turkic legends. Alp Er Tunga (might be the same person Efresiyap as mentioned in Iranic legends) might be the first Turkic leader. Tuman Tengriqut (the first Hun leader) might also be considered as the first greatest ruler.
yea but it isnt confirmed that Alp Er Tunga may an Scythian king or something, so legends doesnt count as a solid proof rather then written documents (most highly by chinese).
Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı
[IMG">http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg">
Back to Top
MING-LOYALIST View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 19-May-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28 		  Quote MING-LOYALIST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 21:50
Afuzhiluo (阿伏至罗).
He led the Gaoche people from baikal region to xinjiang fleeing from Rouran domination in 487AD.
Back to Top
xi_tujue View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Atabeg

Joined: 19-May-2006
Location: Belgium
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 07:33
Originally posted by barbar


Not necesseraly there is only Chinese documents to refer. There are Turkic legends. Alp Er Tunga (might be the same person Efresiyap as mentioned in Iranic legends) might be the first Turkic leader. Tuman Tengriqut (the first Hun leader) might also be considered as the first greatest ruler.
 
 
why is bumin khan also called tuman by the chinese?
Back to Top
EGETRK View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 16-Sep-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 300 		  Quote EGETRK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 10:11
Originally posted by DayI

Originally posted by barbar


Not necesseraly there is only Chinese documents to refer. There are Turkic legends. Alp Er Tunga (might be the same person Efresiyap as mentioned in Iranic legends) might be the first Turkic leader. Tuman Tengriqut (the first Hun leader) might also be considered as the first greatest ruler.
yea but it isnt confirmed that Alp Er Tunga may an Scythian king or something, so legends doesnt count as a solid proof rather then written documents (most highly by chinese).
saka's were Trk,First exemple of Trk Sagu's(ağıt) was written by sakas to Alper Tunga's death...(after b.c 600's)

first paragraph

@divan-i lugatit Trk             @Trkiye Trkish

Alp Er Tunga ldi m               Alp er Tunga ld m?

Isız acun kaldı mu                   Issız acun kaldı mı?

zlek in aldı mu                   dlek cn aldı mı?

Emdi yrek yırtılur                   Şimdi yrek yırtılır....


b.c 600's and a.c 2006...We're still keeping our language...
The lands of the of the West may be armored with walls of steel,
But I have borders guarded by the mighty chest of a believer...
Back to Top
barbar View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar
retired AE Moderator

Joined: 10-Aug-2005
Location: Italy
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 781 		  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 10:16

No, "Turki tillar divani" was writen in 11 century AD. The poem as this linguistical form can have a little longer history, but never as early as 6 century BC.

Either make a history or become a history.
Back to Top
barbar View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar
retired AE Moderator

Joined: 10-Aug-2005
Location: Italy
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 781 		  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 10:20
Originally posted by DayI


Originally posted by barbar


Not necesseraly there is only Chinese documents to refer. There are Turkic legends. Alp Er Tunga (might be the same person Efresiyap as mentioned in Iranic legends) might be the first Turkic leader. Tuman Tengriqut (the first Hun leader) might also be considered as the first greatest ruler.
yea but it isnt confirmed that Alp Er Tunga may an Scythian king or something, so legends doesnt count as a solid proof rather then written documents (most highly by chinese).


You know many writen documents are also based on the legends. Chinese systematical historical documents started from Hanshu. Simaqian also refered to many legends when he wrote about the earlier history.

Legends can't provide exact historical time period,but they are surely a very informative source about historical figures and deeds.


    
Either make a history or become a history.
Back to Top
EGETRK View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 16-Sep-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 300 		  Quote EGETRK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 14:14
Originally posted by barbar


No, "Turki tillar divani" was writen in 11 century AD. The poem as this linguistical form can have a little longer history, but never as early as 6 century BC.

more info please...But i think,this poem is based to old datums or something like Alp Er Tunga epic...i do not hinhk that this poem is written @11 A.D
The lands of the of the West may be armored with walls of steel,
But I have borders guarded by the mighty chest of a believer...
Back to Top
Tunga1980 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 05-Aug-2016
Location: Sydney
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2 		  Quote Tunga1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2016 at 20:05
Modu Chanyu was the oldest in Chinese scripts 
Back to Top
Tunga1980 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 05-Aug-2016
Location: Sydney
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2 		  Quote Tunga1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2016 at 20:07
By the way Modu Chanyu in Turkish is the equivalent to METEHAN

Edited by Tunga1980 - 05-Aug-2016 at 20:08
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.