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Who was the oldest Turkic commander

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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who was the oldest Turkic commander
    Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 17:38
As im really interested in Turkish history please tell me who was the oldest turkish commander ever commanding on the battlefield.
 
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 18:36
i think it would be a chinese name, sorry really i once heard of an 1000 bc (or older) xiongnu commander or khagan's name in chinese. Chinese is somewhat difficult, strange and hard to remember it. 
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 19:07
The oldest Turkic commander had chinese name?
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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 20:11
Mos, I don't think he had a Chinese name (BTW, I have absolutely NO idea who he was). He unquestionably had a Turkish name. However, written records of him could probably only be found in historical Chinese documents. This is in fact the case with a lot of the neighbouring cultural/ethnic groups surrounding China because these groups did not have a literary history as strong as that of China.
 
So his name would be a Chinese rendering of his Turkish name.   
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 20:55
Originally posted by flyingzone

 
So his name would be a Chinese rendering of his Turkish name.   
correct.
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  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 09:04

Not necesseraly there is only Chinese documents to refer. There are Turkic legends. Alp Er Tunga (might be the same person Efresiyap as mentioned in Iranic legends) might be the first Turkic leader. Tuman Tengriqut (the first Hun leader) might also be considered as the first greatest ruler.
Either make a history or become a history.
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 11:45
Originally posted by barbar


Not necesseraly there is only Chinese documents to refer. There are Turkic legends. Alp Er Tunga (might be the same person Efresiyap as mentioned in Iranic legends) might be the first Turkic leader. Tuman Tengriqut (the first Hun leader) might also be considered as the first greatest ruler.
yea but it isnt confirmed that Alp Er Tunga may an Scythian king or something, so legends doesnt count as a solid proof rather then written documents (most highly by chinese).
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  Quote MING-LOYALIST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 21:50
Afuzhiluo (阿伏至罗).
He led the Gaoche people from baikal region to xinjiang fleeing from Rouran domination in 487AD.
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 07:33
Originally posted by barbar


Not necesseraly there is only Chinese documents to refer. There are Turkic legends. Alp Er Tunga (might be the same person Efresiyap as mentioned in Iranic legends) might be the first Turkic leader. Tuman Tengriqut (the first Hun leader) might also be considered as the first greatest ruler.
 
 
why is bumin khan also called tuman by the chinese?
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  Quote EGETRK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 10:11
Originally posted by DayI

Originally posted by barbar


Not necesseraly there is only Chinese documents to refer. There are Turkic legends. Alp Er Tunga (might be the same person Efresiyap as mentioned in Iranic legends) might be the first Turkic leader. Tuman Tengriqut (the first Hun leader) might also be considered as the first greatest ruler.
yea but it isnt confirmed that Alp Er Tunga may an Scythian king or something, so legends doesnt count as a solid proof rather then written documents (most highly by chinese).
saka's were Trk,First exemple of Trk Sagu's(ağıt) was written by sakas to Alper Tunga's death...(after b.c 600's)

first paragraph

@divan-i lugatit Trk             @Trkiye Trkish

Alp Er Tunga ldi m               Alp er Tunga ld m?

Isız acun kaldı mu                   Issız acun kaldı mı?

zlek in aldı mu                   dlek cn aldı mı?

Emdi yrek yırtılur                   Şimdi yrek yırtılır....


b.c 600's and a.c 2006...We're still keeping our language...
The lands of the of the West may be armored with walls of steel,
But I have borders guarded by the mighty chest of a believer...
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  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 10:16

No, "Turki tillar divani" was writen in 11 century AD. The poem as this linguistical form can have a little longer history, but never as early as 6 century BC.

Either make a history or become a history.
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  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 10:20
Originally posted by DayI


Originally posted by barbar


Not necesseraly there is only Chinese documents to refer. There are Turkic legends. Alp Er Tunga (might be the same person Efresiyap as mentioned in Iranic legends) might be the first Turkic leader. Tuman Tengriqut (the first Hun leader) might also be considered as the first greatest ruler.
yea but it isnt confirmed that Alp Er Tunga may an Scythian king or something, so legends doesnt count as a solid proof rather then written documents (most highly by chinese).


You know many writen documents are also based on the legends. Chinese systematical historical documents started from Hanshu. Simaqian also refered to many legends when he wrote about the earlier history.

Legends can't provide exact historical time period,but they are surely a very informative source about historical figures and deeds.


    
Either make a history or become a history.
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  Quote EGETRK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 14:14
Originally posted by barbar


No, "Turki tillar divani" was writen in 11 century AD. The poem as this linguistical form can have a little longer history, but never as early as 6 century BC.

more info please...But i think,this poem is based to old datums or something like Alp Er Tunga epic...i do not hinhk that this poem is written @11 A.D
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  Quote Tunga1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2016 at 20:05
Modu Chanyu was the oldest in Chinese scripts 
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  Quote Tunga1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2016 at 20:07
By the way Modu Chanyu in Turkish is the equivalent to METEHAN

Edited by Tunga1980 - 05-Aug-2016 at 20:08
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