Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Arab and spanish

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 7>
Author
Worldhistory View Drop Down
Knight
Knight

suspended

Joined: 12-Oct-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 80
  Quote Worldhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Arab and spanish
    Posted: 28-Nov-2006 at 19:55

I'll reply when I'm given access to paste pictures from my computer.

 

Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Nov-2006 at 18:07
What a bunch of crap, first time I got into this Forum and already got a new perspective on the history of my country (Portugal), no less by an antipode. I guess those ruined sufi tombs near my house must be some celtiberian shrine, thats it, oh, and above all, the castle walls surveying my little town, definitely are from alien origin.
 
by the way the word "muculmano" is not a spanish word (castellano), but Portuguese.
Back to Top
konstantinius View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 22-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 762
  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 17:55
Thanks to Ikki for posting these. "worldhistory", me, Ikki and others have gone to considerable lenghts of time to post proofs that you not only deny but never, ever, provide another source to prove your points. You're trying to prove to all of us that the sky is really green, but you don't provide any source or proof to back your claims.
So, unless you have something else to say or post BESIDES general aphorisms of the style "you're all gullible children, you don't know blah, blah, blah,.." I, at least, consider this thread closed. 
" I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so."
Back to Top
konstantinius View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 22-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 762
  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 17:46
Originally posted by Worldhistory

I'm just a moron so what do I know.


Couldn't have said it better myself.
" I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so."
Back to Top
Ikki View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Guanarteme

Joined: 31-Dec-2004
Location: Spain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1378
  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 16:34
Good news friends, unfortunatelly for you and your sect Worldhistory LOL

The entire Arab-Byzantine Chronicle (743-744) in a deep study of Jos Carlos Martn of the Salamanca University:

http://www.e-spania.paris-sorbonne.fr/article-pdf/Jcmartin.htm

The chronicle talk us about the expansion of the islamic empire and mainly about the conflict between romans (byzantines) and arabs, in the article 36, 41 and 42 we can read:

"36. Hulit obtained next the scepter of the kingdom of the Saracens, according to what his father had established, happening to this one in the kingdom [58]. He reigns for nine years. He was a male of a big knowledge at the time of deploy his troops, up to such a point that, even turning out to be forbidden of the divine favor, destroyed the armies of almost all the nearby peoples him. And it debilitates especially to the Roman Empire with continuas incursions, and to the islands it took them almost to the exhaustion. He submitted with his conquests the territories of the India. And in the regions of Occident, by means of the general of his army of name Musa [59] invaded and submitted the kingdom of the Goths in Hispania, firm and powerful kingdom from ancient; and after throwing below this kingdom, it did his Gothic subjects. Carrying out this way prosperously all these wars, during the ninth year of his reign, after had been showed before him wealths proceeding from all the peoples as he had imagined it, it came at the end of his life.

41. Yzit, 
that obtained next the kingdom of the Saracens, reigns for four years [68] ... Anyway, in the western regions it carried out of happily some battles by means of the generals of his army.

42.
He submits to his power also to the Gaul Narbonense by means of the general of his army Mazlema [69], and attacks with frequent wars the people of the Franks. This way, making use of an excessive value, the already said general of the Saracen army came up to Toulouse and tried to take by storm this city, putting siege with all kinds of machines of war. On having known similar news, the Franks meet concerning one of his generals of name Eudo [70]. Grouped this way, they come up to Toulouse. At the doors of Toulouse one and another army unite combat in a struggle to death. The Franks finish with Zema, general of the saracen army [71], and a part of his army, and put in escape and chase the rest of the army of the Saracens."


Notes:

58. Walid I, Caliph between 705 and 715.
59. Musa ibn Nusayr, arab governor of North frica, first muslim governor of Al-Andalus, between 711-714.
(67). Yazid II, caliph between 720-724
68. The just cited Ya.zid II
69. According to Dubler, " On the Arabic - Byzantine Chronicle ... ", notation 1 of p. 320, the mention here of this general Mazlema, who does not appear in no other of our ancient sources, is probably a confusion, either of the author either of a copyist, with general Maslama, victorious in East, brother of Sulaymn and of Yazid II, quoted in the chapters 38 and 41. The reference to Maslama enters also contradiction with the following news of the chronicle the one that says to herself that the Moslem army was directed by As-Samh ibn Malik to the-Khaulani (general Zema of our work).
70. Duke Eudo of Aquitain. The battle of Tolouse took place on May 11 of 721.
71. The general As-Samh ibn Malik al-Khaulani.





Edited by Ikki - 05-Nov-2006 at 16:49
Back to Top
Ikki View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Guanarteme

Joined: 31-Dec-2004
Location: Spain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1378
  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 09:25
wow guys, wasn't this thread totally dead?, and now i see that our friend Worldhistory had amused in last days insulting and laughing of our fellows Thumbs Down

Here you have the traduction to spanish of the Mozarabic chronicle (754), i can translate portions of the text (to those friends that aren't rudes Smile) :

Note: I have edited and translated the portions of the Chronicle; guys you are privileged because i think this is the first time that the chronicle is available in english internet. Becareful, is translated from an spanish traslation that i don't like very much (of J.E. Lpez Pereira, Zaragoza 1980) wich translated the original



 

Abdelaziz [713-715] it had imposed the peace for the whole Spain for three years, submitting it to the yoke of the census. Boasting in Seville with his wealths and honors that he was sharing with the queen of Spain [Egiln], which it had joined in marriage, or with the daughters of the kings and princes with whom he was living together and later it was retiring imprudently, promoted a conspiracy of theirs, it was murdered by council of Ayub, when he was devoting himself to the prayer.

This one governs Spain for one month, and by order of the prince it replaces him in the throne of Hesperia Alaor, whom he is informed about the death of Abdelaziz to the effect that for council of the queen Egiln, previous wife of king Rodrigo, whom that one had married, it was trying to remove from his head the Arab yoke and to assume individually the conquered Iberian kingdom [...].

During his reign Alaor [715-718] he sends the arms of the justice for
Spain, and between wars and agreements it tries to come in almost three years to the Gaul Narbonense. This way, he organizes little by little the Ulterior Spain forcing her to pay taxes and he is supported in the hithermost Iberia preserving the throne the already stated years [...].

Zama [718-720], which was filling the governor's vacancy in Spain was doing little less than three years, it does census of the Citerior Iberia with its own pen to load the taxes. It avoids between his Allied Forces gained fields, as well as any other thing that the Arabs were preserving in Spain still without distributing, fruit of the previous booties. To the Public Treasure delivery departs from all the goods furniture and real estate [...].

Finally, it conquers the Gaul Narbonense and torments with frequent wars the people of the Franks; to protect well his defenses it leaves a garrison of Saracens in already the just cited city of Narbonne and, with the army who was accompanying him, the already named general came in his struggle up to Toulouse and, besieging it, it tries to assault her with siege machines of diverse type (note: literally, "slingers"? and other machines). Then the Francs, insurances of such a news, meet to the orders of his duke Eudo. When near of
Toulouse, one and another army they are in hard battle, they kill Zauma, general of the Saracen army, and to part of the troop there gathered. To the rest of the army who escapes they chase him in his flight.

It takes the control of this one Abderramn and it preserved it one month, until by order of the Caliph his chief Ambiza comes [in 721] [...].

Also he, projecting wars against the Francs and carrying out them by means of satraps sent for the work, fights with adverse luck. But doing brawls, with formation in wedge of his forces, it attacks some cities and castles, and this way, duplicating the taxes to the Christians, suppresses them hardly and, loaded with honors, governs triumphally Spain [...].

[In the year] hundredth seventh of the Arabs [=725 d. J.C.] it happens to Ambiza, by order of the princes [=the caliph], a Saracen called Yaha, terrible dictator, that it burns in cruel anger during near three years and, taken of his hard character, it chases the Saracens and the Moors of Spain for having usurped the previously paid to obtain the peace and returns many things to the Christians [...].

[In the year] hundredth tenth ninth of the Arabs [=734 d. J. C.], the fifteen of Iseam, Aucupa came to relieve to him [= Uqba]. This, while the whole
Spain was afraid of his political power, his illustrious ancestry and his fidelity to the law, imprisons his predecessor and punishes hardly the judges that he had nominated.

In effect, at the same time that it forces to fulfill the law, it orders to do a census of the people and promotes with effort the exaction of taxes. Expel who had ruined
Spain and to the involved ones in diverse corruption on to another side of the sea. It enriches rapidly to the Exchequer for different river beds and it is supported in a big austerity and with completely secret donations. He does not punish anybody, not to be in accordance with the justice, and he begin an expedition against the Franks with a multitudinous army [...].

Beginning the hundredth thirtieth [year] [=746 d. J.C.], the Council of palace [of Al-Andalus] in plenary meeting, in an extraordinary acclamation, it chooses for the throne of the nation Yuzif for being a nobleman and of advanced age.

Not many days later, promoting Arab diverse struggles in
Spain against him, they were delivering his souls to the hell without having obtained any success. It orders to do a census to include the surviving population, and feverishly, even at the cost of becoming a culprit of savings, orders that the archivists should erase of the public book those Christian taxpayers that the sword had murdered along so many pursuits. "



The other portion:

"
In the age 782 [=744 d. J. C.], died, after asking with insistence for the peace, the warrior Teodomiro, who in diverse areas of Spain had caused considerable slaughters of Arabs and had done with them the agreement that it owed. Already in times of the Gothic kings Egica and Witiza it had risen with the victory on the Byzantine ones, that as good sailors had come up to his homeland for sea.

Considering it [the Caliph of Damascus] more prudent than the others, it extolled it favorably and confirmed the agreement that previously it had established with Abdelaziz [in 713]. This way, he remains corroborated in such a way that by no means the force of so firm bond might already be annulled by the Arab successors, and after this it returns to Spain delighted.

After the death of Teodomiro, it is considered like man of big dignity and nobility [his son] Atanagildo, since he was the richest master of all and the most generous on having distributed his money with them. But soon, after comes to
Spain king Alhozan [the governor Abu-l-Jattar to the-Husam, in 742-744] snatched by what madness, it threw against him big terms of abuse and condemned it to 27.000 golden solidus. When the army who had come with general Balch know this, in almost three days, he paid everything and immediately they reconcile it with Alhozan of nickname Abutcatar, and rewarding him with diverse gifts restore him in the power."




Now here, you can see the coins of VIII century in Al-Andalus:


http://www.islamyal-andalus.org/monedas/portada.htm

http://www.islamyal-andalus.org/monedas/abdalrahman1.htm

The coin of Abd al Rahman I:



Central inscription:
Front: "There is no god but the only Allah. He haven't equal"
Behind: "Allah is only and eternal, undivisioned he have not conceive and haven't been conceived, he haven't equal"

External inscription:
"In the name of Allah. This dirhan was made in Al-Andalus. 154 of the Hgira"

"Muhammad is the messenger of God. He sent him with the guide and the true Din for show it to all religions even if the politheist deny it"




When i will had time we will discuss a lot of things Worldhistory.








Edited by Ikki - 05-Nov-2006 at 16:03
Back to Top
Worldhistory View Drop Down
Knight
Knight

suspended

Joined: 12-Oct-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 80
  Quote Worldhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 23:41
I'm just a moron so what do I know.
Back to Top
mard View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 04-Nov-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
  Quote mard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 23:26
what in the world is a ebro document?
Back to Top
Worldhistory View Drop Down
Knight
Knight

suspended

Joined: 12-Oct-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 80
  Quote Worldhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 23:21
Where is this Ebro document, this quote from the Venerable Bede and this coin with "Spain" on it?

Still seen nothing of this.
Back to Top
Worldhistory View Drop Down
Knight
Knight

suspended

Joined: 12-Oct-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 80
  Quote Worldhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 23:20
I think there's a lot of delusional mentally ill people here who know they have no proof for the versions of history they fantasize about and therefore resort to intimidating anyone who asks for proof.

I've already been called evil for asking to see this Ebro document and this quote from Bede.

LOL
Back to Top
mard View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 04-Nov-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
  Quote mard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 22:44
Originally posted by pinguin

Originally posted by Worldhistory

...

That's just parasital terminology because an Arab will always be an Arab and never a Spaniard...unless of course you're rebadging.
...
 
Really?
 
Don't you know Sharika is Arab? As far as I know she is as Latina as anyone else. That's the way hispanic countries assimilate people. The same happened with Arabs in Spain, they become assimilated to the mainstream, and afterwords nobody knew who was Arab or European!
 
Pinguin
 
dont worry about him man, he is just a arab hating moron. its not worth talking to these types of people
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 22:42
Originally posted by Worldhistory

...

That's just parasital terminology because an Arab will always be an Arab and never a Spaniard...unless of course you're rebadging.
...
 
Really?
 
Don't you know Sharika is Arab? As far as I know she is as Latina as anyone else. That's the way hispanic countries assimilate people. The same happened with Arabs in Spain, they become assimilated to the mainstream, and afterwords nobody knew who was Arab or European!
 
Pinguin
Back to Top
mard View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 04-Nov-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
  Quote mard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 22:35
World History your an idiot man, get your history facts right, we all know you hate muslims, so ofcourse your gona down play them every time.
Back to Top
Worldhistory View Drop Down
Knight
Knight

suspended

Joined: 12-Oct-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 80
  Quote Worldhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 22:31
Anyway, where is this Ebro document, this quote from the Venerable Bede and this coin with "Spain" on it.

Still seen nothing of this.
Back to Top
Worldhistory View Drop Down
Knight
Knight

suspended

Joined: 12-Oct-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 80
  Quote Worldhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 22:28
Originally posted by pinguin

What do you mean? Arabs in this context are people that speak Arab. They invaded Spain and converted Arab in the language of the Southern provinces for a while. Some of the descendents of Arabs asimilated to the Spaniards, the rest was expelled from the country after Christians recovered it.


Pinguin




That's just parasital terminology because an Arab will always be an Arab and never a Spaniard...unless of course you're rebadging.

Oh that's right, just rebadge and any fairytale is made possible.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 21:23

What do you mean? Arabs in this context are people that speak Arab. They invaded Spain and converted Arab in the language of the Southern provinces for a while. Some of the descendents of Arabs asimilated to the Spaniards, the rest was expelled from the country after Christians recovered it.

Pinguin

Back to Top
Worldhistory View Drop Down
Knight
Knight

suspended

Joined: 12-Oct-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 80
  Quote Worldhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 21:13
Originally posted by pinguin

Let me remind you that most my ancestry is Spaniard.


Pinguin


But Arabs are not from Spain?

Back to Top
Worldhistory View Drop Down
Knight
Knight

suspended

Joined: 12-Oct-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 80
  Quote Worldhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 21:11
Originally posted by pinguin

I don't now if taking serious this guy "[COLOR=#000000">Worldhistory[/COLOR">".


But is so funny and desesperating at the same time, that someonedoubt ofsomething so obvious in Spanish and Hispanic culture like the invasions of the Arabs during the 8th Century.


Look at Spaniards! Count how many of them look like bediouns riding a camel!It's such obvious.


The Moorish invasion transformed the culture of Spain in a radical way, that can'tbe understood if one is not Spanish or Hispanic. There are so many clues going around everywhere, from music to religious traditions, to words and to the eyes of certain "seoritas" of moor's eyes that shine like mirrors. How we could understand flamenco?, bullfighting? Don Quixote? Wihout the Arab passion and fantasy that is part of us. How to understand Spain without the Barbaric revenge of those braveKnights or those cruel Conquistadorsthat is our German heritage of courage and resistence and love for war. Or the passion for literature without remembering our Jewish intellectualsthat created the language, and teach us to love books and laugh of priest?


All of that is Spain, and because of that we love our Iberian "Motherland", no matter we live in the antiphodes.


Pinguin




Asiatic fantasy personified.

Forget about genuine proof or truth...just invent fairytales and pass these fairytales on to the next generation of parasites.

Back to Top
Worldhistory View Drop Down
Knight
Knight

suspended

Joined: 12-Oct-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 80
  Quote Worldhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 21:06
Originally posted by konstantinius


Originally posted by Worldhistory

Originally posted by konstantinius

The Courtyard of Lions, Alhambra Palace. This section was built by Yusuf I.



<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">This picture proves nothing at all. Its merely rebadging existing Spanish buildings into Arabic sounding names.</span>

It proves that an Arabic civilization has existed in Iberia prior to 12th century. Why do you have such a problem with that?


No it doesn't. It just proves how weak and baseless the 711 AD claim of an Arabic presence in Spain is.

Arabs simply rebadge existing Spanish buildings as being Arabic or Islamic and then rebadge that building's prior history as also being Arabic and Islamic.

Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2006 at 10:15

Let me remind you that most my ancestry is Spaniard. I believe I have the right to laugh about myself. Don't you think so?

Pinguin
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 7>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.051 seconds.