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Anti-Stealth Air Defence

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Desimir View Drop Down
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  Quote Desimir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Anti-Stealth Air Defence
    Posted: 15-Sep-2006 at 20:52
We know that USA invested billions of dollars in stealth
technology.The new stealth aircrafts like F-22,F-35,
Rah-66 will be the backbone of USAF and their main advantage is invisibility.But in the recent years there are reports of new air defence systems that will detect any aircraft.Such a systems developed in russia and based on Czechs Tamara system already exist.Tamara proved to be worthy and effective when it shoot down
F-117 in Serbia.Do you think that there are such kind of systems and how they will influence USAF strategy.
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  Quote Gundamor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2006 at 10:36
RAH 66 was canceled years ago FYI
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  Quote Adalwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 17:29
When was a F-117 shot down?

Edited by Adalwolf - 27-Sep-2006 at 17:29
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 23:39
Over Kosovo, it was actually just a lucky shot from what I heard, the Serbs were firing the missiles blindly and one got really lucky.  The pilot lived and was picked up.
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  Quote Giordano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 05:54
stealth=invisible?
stealth is smaller radar reflection only,this means a stealth plane,ship,chopper also visible by radar.May be some sam batteries hunts
some big birds but stealth tech enforce war platforms,not made them invisible...This is important feature for every military unit and opponents will solve or solved.All weapons creates itself antiweapon...
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  Quote Gundamor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 09:50
Originally posted by Giordano

All weapons creates itself antiweapon...


This is something most dont realize. But in the same sense as the antiweapon is created the original weapon is upgraded or improved so to say. Most people have a hard time grasping that nothing is industructable, nothing is invisible, nothing is without flaw even if small. Its also a common flaw to point out one incident as a total failure. The F-117 that was shot down may have been 1 out of 1000+ succesful other sorties. But because "one" got shotdown it makes it bad.
    
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  Quote Desimir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 11:57
From what i know serbs detected F-117 with the czech system Tamara.It was not a lucky shot.Even american specialist confirmed that Tamara can detect every stealth aircraft including B-2 and F-22.

Russians also claim that their new system S-400 Triumph is able do detect any aircraft.
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 16:02
Many systems can detect stealth aircraft, but the radar cross-section is so small missiles cannot be guided to it.  From what I heard, the Serbs saw very faint radar contacts and fired SAMs and AAA in their general area.
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  Quote Gundamor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 17:45
Originally posted by Desimir


Russians also claim that their new system S-400 Triumph is able do detect any aircraft.

    
I would be careful on what they claim. Russia is trying to sell everything but the kitchen sink at the moment. The better the equipment sounds the better the chances to sell it. Remeber how the U.S. claimed how great the Patriot was and sold alot to countries. We all know now it was no where near that effective or really effective at all at times. This doesnt mean the Triumph cant detect anything or almost anything but I wouldnt jump to conclusions. Plus the Triumph's main sell point is the range,small effective surface(.01 square meters) and ability to knock out AWACs which are a huge key to the U.S. and some western air forces.
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  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 19:21

Even with new radars it's going to be hard to hit stealth aircraft, it's fairly simple to change tactics to take into account new threats. I'd rather go into combat in an aircraft with the radar cross section of a small marble than one with the RCS of a house.

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  Quote Laelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 20:22
From what i know serbs detected F-117 with the czech system Tamara.It was not a lucky shot.Even american specialist confirmed that Tamara can detect every stealth aircraft including B-2 and F-22.

Russians also claim that their new system S-400 Triumph is able do detect any aircraft.
 
No it was a lucky shot as well as a result of the extraordinary efforts of the 250th Missile brigade, which learned that they could detect not track the F-117s by using long range wave lengths.  They also learned that the F-117s were flying in relatively direct non randomized routes to targets through past detections as well as targets destroyed.  With this information in hand the 250ths commanding officer, Zoltan Dani, was able to deduce the most probable flight paths and assign mutliple batteries, spotters equipped with thermal imaging devices and laser rangefinders along these routes.  Sure enough an F-117 flew over one of these prepared locations and the the Serbs were able to locate it and then fire several missiles via manual guidance.  One of these missiles was able to explode close enough to the F-117 to force the pilot to eject. 
     Now some things to bear in mind, first the F-117s used stealth materials(paint) which were eroded by high amounts of moisture thus significantly diminishing its stealthiness.  Second the F-117s bay doors are not as shall we say muscular as that of the B-2 and F-22 and as a result must remain open for a comparatively longer period of time.  Finally the the complacency of US planners which did not apply an appreciable effort to confuse Serb aerial defenses with respect to the flights of stealth aircraft.


Edited by Laelius - 28-Sep-2006 at 20:27
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  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 20:55
Keep in mind that F-117s are 1970s technology also. They were designed at a time when computers did't have the power to allow curved surfaces on stealth aircraft. As Laelius says, they also require RAM(radar absorbing material) paints and putty to achieve the lowest RCS possible. The F-22 and B-2 took advantage of faster computers in their design and don't have these limitations.
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 22:12
Originally posted by Laelius

From what i know serbs detected F-117 with the czech system Tamara.It was not a lucky shot.Even american specialist confirmed that Tamara can detect every stealth aircraft including B-2 and F-22.

Russians also claim that their new system S-400 Triumph is able do detect any aircraft.
 
No it was a lucky shot as well as a result of the extraordinary efforts of the 250th Missile brigade,.
 
THanks for the clarification.  I have also heard that the stealth plane was brought down by skilled planning.    The version I heard was that the plane was optically / thermally tracked and then SAM-6s were launched towards the projected flight path.
 
The guidiance Radars were turned on while the missiles were in mid flight allowing for fine corrections.   Therefore,  the Pilot's ECM systems only gave a very brief warning before a missile exploded nearby
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  Quote Kerimoglu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2006 at 06:33
S 400 TRIUMPH is enough for all all of the together
History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow!
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