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Temujin
King
Sirdar Bahadur
Joined: 02-Aug-2004
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Topic: Ottoman army Posted: 29-Aug-2007 at 16:31 |
Originally posted by Sarmat12
When Russians faced Tatars they fought with mounted Tatar archers, not with Turkish Janissaries. |
look at this battle here (1572): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Molodi
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Crystall
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Posted: 29-Aug-2007 at 16:39 |
The Ottomans simply filled the void after the continued decay and decline of the Byzantine Empire.
This is the most important and underlying reason
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Roberts
Chieftain
aka axeman
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Posted: 29-Aug-2007 at 16:56 |
Originally posted by Sarmat12
In the Russian chronicle about the taking of Kazan it said that Kazan Tatars didn't know how to use the guns, so they forced Armenian and Turkish merchants to fire from them. |
I didn't know that, quite interesting.
Crimean Tatars BTW had stone wall cities and also guns to protect them, even more advanced than Kazan Tatars. |
Which cities? IMO all important cities and fortresses along the Black sea coast were manned by Ottoman Turks like Keffe, Akkerman. Though I don't know so much about inner cities in peninsula, Bakchisaray (spelling?) for example and also Perekop - the mouth of Crimea.
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Sarmat
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Posted: 29-Aug-2007 at 17:27 |
Originally posted by Temujin
look at this battle here (1572):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Molodi
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Yes, this is a very famous battle. The amount of Turkish troops there was minimum that's why Russians by effective use of fire weapons and "guliai-gorod" (mobile wooden fortress) decimated Tatar cavalry.
BTW Russians had West european mercenaries on their side in this battle, who really were their teachers in military innovations. I remember reading memoirs of one german soldier who wrote that Russians were able to win due to the overwhelming superiority in firearms.
There are also some indications that some years earlier Turks made an expedition from Azov to Volga and were defeated by the Russian prince Serebriany (kniaz Serebriany). However, the sources about this battle are very obsured. But in this case also Turkish forces consisted mainy of Crimean horde units so Russians again had to fight their traditional Tatar enemy and didn't have chance "to be impressed" by the Turkish military achievements.
Edited by Sarmat12 - 29-Aug-2007 at 18:41
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Sarmat
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Posted: 29-Aug-2007 at 17:31 |
Originally posted by axeman
Though I don't know so much about inner cities in peninsula, Bakchisaray (spelling?) for example and also Perekop - the mouth of Crimea.
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Yes, cities in the pennisula. Though they were inhabitted mainly by Greeks, Goths, Armenians and Italians and later Turks a part of them was under direct rule of the Crimean Khan. So they had guns in the cities. But Crimean Tatars never used them on a large scale during their raids.
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Sikander
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Posted: 05-Sep-2007 at 08:03 |
Do you know where can i find, online, info on the Kazan campaign? That is, except in Wikipedia, of course !
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Roberts
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Posted: 05-Sep-2007 at 08:36 |
Originally posted by Sikander
Do you know where can i find, online, info on the Kazan campaign? That is, except in Wikipedia, of course ! |
Kazan campaign ( mostly siege itself ) http://www.xenophon-mil.org/ruscity/volga/kazan/kazsiege.htmI thought that you were familiar with this site so probably missed this piece of information before.
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Sikander
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Posted: 05-Sep-2007 at 12:05 |
Well, yes I did know, but this is not a contemporary account...
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Roberts
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aka axeman
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Posted: 05-Sep-2007 at 14:00 |
Ah, you are looking for primary sources for Kazan campaign, which I guess are only available in Russian.
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Sikander
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Posted: 14-Sep-2007 at 12:39 |
No translations to any other "Christian" language? Oh...
Well, I guess I'll just have to work with what I have...
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