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Korean President of Chinese origin?

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The Charioteer View Drop Down
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  Quote The Charioteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Korean President of Chinese origin?
    Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 10:59

I've came across some source in Chinese claiming that Korean president Roh Moo hyun can trace his family's ancestry to Chinese surname Lu.

The source claim Roh's sister even came to China to visit city of ZhuoZhou in Hebei province, where Lu/Roh clan originated.
 
Further search, then found the Lu clan website records this visit http://www.fyls.cn/News/Show.asp?id=245
 
(Roh's sister with local officials and representatives from Lu clan of China)
 
Im interested to know, whether this background of Roh Moo hyun is well-known to the public or not in South Korea?


Edited by The Charioteer - 27-Aug-2006 at 11:03
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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 11:54
I don't find that at all surprising given the long history of Chinese diaspora. Take Corazon Aquino, the 11th president of the Philippines (1986 - 1992). Everyone knows she is from one of the richest Chinese-mestizo families in the Philippines and that her mother's family, the Sumulongs, also belongs to a political Chinese Filipino family. Everyone also knows that there is Chinese blood in the Thai royal family, a fact that the royal family itself never denies. But how has that affected the foreign policies of those countries or has that had an effect at all? Personally I don't think it has and I seriously doubt if Roh's so-called "Chinese origin" has had any effect on Sino-Korean relation. Elected officials act on behalf of the interests of the people who elect them (in most cases at least), not on behalf of some abstract concept of ancestry. However, one can also argue that one never knows how human subconsciousness really works. Take Peru's ex-president Alberto Fujimori as an example. He's born to Japanese immigrant parents who moved to Peru in 1934 who keeps his Japanese citizenship. During his presidency, he did seek closer economic ties with Japan; and after his resignation from the Peruvian presidency amidst a sea of scandals, he went into exile in Japan. But Fujimori is a second-generation Japanese-Peruvian immigrant, a situation very different from that of Roh whose ancestral relation to China is definitely a lot more remote.
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  Quote The Charioteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 12:49
this has nothing to do with politics, if you want to make the list longer i can help you flyingzone, but i dont see the necessary relation to my thread.
 
I simply wondered that i didnt learn it from public, so what would the situation in SK. Whether this is known or not?
 
 
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  Quote Killabee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 16:19
It is highly possible certain Korean surname came directly from Chinese immigrant, notably Hong, Wang and Roh.

Former Korean President Roh Taw-woo did the same thing couple years ago to come to Shandong, China to trace his ancestry.
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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 22:01
Originally posted by The Charioteer

if you want to make the list longer i can help you flyingzone
 
 
 
Just for curiosity's sake, could you? Thanks in advance.
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  Quote The Charioteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 22:15
Originally posted by flyingzone

Originally posted by The Charioteer

if you want to make the list longer i can help you flyingzone
 
 
 
Just for curiosity's sake, could you? Thanks in advance.
 
-there are lots of clan infor on the net,
-this is not what my thread meant
-the list will be spacious
-besides, you might not be interested
 


Edited by The Charioteer - 27-Aug-2006 at 22:16
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 22:49
It's also important to remember the Koreans early on did not have surnames and that names were often given out as awards by kings to individuals who had distinguished themselves and etc.  Not to say that there's no chance of Roh Muhyeon's lineage being traceable to China.  But in most cases names were simply borrowed.
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  Quote ricecake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2006 at 22:25
He probably can trace many of his ancestors to Siberia,Mongolia,and China's NE region as well.There were small scales of Korean migration settled in various parts of China during Tang Dynasty and other dynastic periods through out the history.It's possible,a few Korean families can locate burial tomb of their ancestor(s) once lived there.
 
Some Korean families have multiple origins,including Han Chinese.
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  Quote Omnipotence Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 00:06
Everybody in Korea was from China at some point it time, lol. No doubt about it. And everybody from China was from Mongolia or somewhere around there, and that to the Middle East, and then back to Africa.
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  Quote The Charioteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 01:20

Origin of Lu clan

Derived from the Jiang clan, descendants of the fire emperor.

Jiang shang(or Jiang ziya) helped king Wu of Zhou overthrew the Shang dynasty and established the Zhou dynasty. Jiang shang received the land of Qi(in shandong province) as a reward by Zhou gong(brother of king Wu) , revered as "Tai gong of Qi". (The great-grandfather of Qi state)

During the "spring and autumn" period, son of "Wen gong of Qi", named Gao, Gao's grandson Gao Xi became high official of Qi, because his support to Jiang xiao bai as new ruler of Qi(later known as "lord Huan of Qi"), Gao xi was rewarded by Lord Huan of Qi as hes assigned to the place of Luyi(today's Changqing county, in Shandong province). Gao xi's descendants began to using Lu as their clan name.

"family tree of Lu/Roh" ,extracted from Korean Roh's clan website
 
 
 


Edited by The Charioteer - 05-Sep-2006 at 01:34
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  Quote ricecake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 02:48
This chapter in ancient Chinese history of Shandong Peninsula NOT necessarily applies to any Korean family named Lu,however it's possible some of them can trace roots there.
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  Quote ricecake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 03:03

Korean race has MULTIPLE-origins,Han Chinese is one but NOT as PREVALENT as Mongol and Tungus in their overall gene pool.

It's TRUE,nowadays Koreans are turning their backs on Han Chinese heritage at own choosing.

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  Quote The Charioteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 08:43
Originally posted by ricecake

This chapter in ancient Chinese history of Shandong Peninsula NOT necessarily applies to any Korean family named Lu,however it's possible some of them can trace roots there.
 
The fire emperor, Jiang shang(Tai gong of Qi), Jiang xiao bai(lord Huan of Qi), Gao Xi are all on the "family tree" of Roh clan from their website, you can see Roh Moo hyun in the "gallery" section.
 
When the ruling Jiang household of Qi state was replaced by Tian clan, some descendants of Jiang family(including its branch the Lu/Roh clan) migrated to other states.One resided to Fanyang(near Zhuozhou city in Hebei province) is called Lu clan of Fanyang, the one President Roh's sister visited.
 
Lu clan was one of 4 biggest Northern Chinese clans in ancient China. Lu Zhi of Eastern Han dynasty was Liu Bei's tutor(who became emperor of ShuHan kingdom from the "Romance of three kingdoms"). Lu Zhi is from Fanyang branch, hes regarded as one of the ancestors of Roh family, Roh's sister paid homage to him during her stay in Fanyang. 
 
 
 


Edited by The Charioteer - 06-Sep-2006 at 10:28
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  Quote jiangweibaoye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 12:35
Ricecake,
 
I agree with you (mostly), but why do you think is the reason for Koreans to reject  their Han heritage?
 
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  Quote The Charioteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 16:47
You know what, earlier ancestors of Roh family are also my ancestors, since im descended from Jiang clan of Qi state. The difference is that im a Chinese, they are Koreans.
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  Quote ricecake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 23:07
Originally posted by jiangweibaoye

 
Ricecake,
 
I agree with you (mostly), but why do you think is the reason for Koreans to reject  their Han heritage?
 
Jiangwei
 
It's a complex issue,there are several major factors.
 
All began with collapsed of Sinosphere in mid-19th century,as China spirally declined to no end for over 150 years to this very second.Why would any nationality want to associate with lowly un-democratic China as it's being bullied,robbed,ridiculed,and despised !
 
Japanese Occupation of Korea peninsula brought some anti-Chinese sentiments to Korean society then came to 1950's with implementation of De-Sinicization policy.
 
We also need to accept the fact,most Korean families are INDEED of Mongol and Tungus origins.Yes,there were sporadic incremental small scales of Han Chinese migration to the peninsula through out Korean history.However,Nomadic and Dong-Yi bloods are most prevalent in modern day gene pool.
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  Quote ricecake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 23:20
jiangweibaoye ...
 
Can you read my replied post to you,if not I can re-type it ?
 
 
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  Quote jiangweibaoye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 10:53
I read it. Thanks!
 
Jiangwei
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2007 at 13:26
Originally posted by jiangweibaoye

Ricecake,
 
I agree with you (mostly), but why do you think is the reason for Koreans to reject  their Han heritage?
 
Jiangwei
 
It appears that it is not really an issue whether Koreans turn their back against the Han(Chinese) heritage, but rather the Koreans really do not have Chinese heritage.
 
For example, in the above family roots, the origin of Lu clan is in fact non-Chinese origin from the beginning, though the Chinese eroneously believe it is of Chinese origin. So, there is no issue of whether Koreans have any Chinese origin or not from the beginning.
 
Yan Di and his offspring, such as Jiang Tai Gong (first King of Qi State) are in fact all Eastern Barbarians who are of Non-Chinese origin. They are closer to ethnic Koreans and Tungus people. Thus, it is proper to say that in fact some Chinese (Jiang clan, Lu clan ...) have Eastern Barbarian (Koreano-Tungus) heritage.
 
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  Quote Intranetusa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2007 at 22:55
Actually, the Lu clan is Chinese, and Lu is a very common surname in China.
 
 
" of Non-Chinese origin."
 
Non-Chinese? What is your definition of Chinese? The Chinese aren't just the Han, the Chinese also includes Manchu, Hui, etc
 
"Thus, it is proper to say that in fact some Chinese (Jiang clan, Lu clan ...) have Eastern Barbarian (Koreano-Tungus) heritage."
 
You have it in reverse. Where is the Jian and Lu surname in Korea?
It is far more likely the Koreans have Chinese heritage because migration went from west to east.
 


Edited by Intranetusa - 26-May-2007 at 22:47
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