Baltic Crusades

How the **** should anyone understand your second question?

I know Ost means East in German, so I suppose it means the German push Eastward...?

That makes sense now. Yeah, Western Europe and the Papacy made a huge turn-around in the 11th century after centuries of punishment, and from that point forward they became increaingly powerful.

Many crusades were to expand Christianism or to figth against heresies, not only against muslims. For example in Langedoc against Albigensis and Cathars, they were christians also. And crusades were a good method to get new lands and expand the territories of the crusaders, like in Spain. Many French, Italian or Burgundy or members of Temple or Hospitallers went to Spain or other places with crusades to get new feuds. If in the Baltic there were pagans is not strange.

I don't think the church ever cared about religion, or if it did it was a religion=power type of matter. Muslim, pagan, Hindu, no difference to the pope, there are no privilieges, it was a war as any other - more land, serfs, culutral integration of the conquered lands etc.

The Baltics was a logical target, as when you look at the maps of the time, 12th century perhaps. The line between the catholic (Western and Central Europe) and orthodox christian (Russian) lands was very thin, leaving only the Baltics with some surrounding strips pagan. And when you look back on the 11th century and forward you can only see a continuous line of wars against Slavic pagans east of Germany, and also Finns in the 12th century soon-to-be Swedish domain - spot by spot of land fell under christian rulers and i don't doubt they mentioned divine providence guiding their hand and swords through wotrhless pagan lives. The Baltics were just the last target, lucky enough we got by that long and keep our roots for the time being.

Pagan lands weren't officially anyones in the eyes of a christian ruler. Nobody in the Western-European catholic gang would condemn your actions if they were to attack pagans, likely only lend a hand while grabbing something for yourself. That was the trend of the time and politics i believe.

Learn some German in school man it will be usefull in futre life
must agree with Kalevipoeg, logical target the Baltics were, damn chritians
    

Edited by milns - 23-Aug-2006 at 17:43

Originally posted by Constantine XI The Baltic region is one in which my knowledge is comparably weak so I am wondering something. In the medieval world it was quite common practice for the Byzantine Patriarchy and the Roman Papacy to vie with one another for power by competing to influence pagan lands to adopt their specific creed of Christianity. The Rus were converted back in 989 by the Byzantines whilst the Germans were pushing into central Europe about the same time. Supposing that the Rus were Orthodox and the Germans were Catholics, could it be that the bloc of pagan territory between the two became another place of competition between the two rival heads of the Christian world? Could this competition have been serious enough to motivate the Papacy into giving the Catholic forces extra impetus by lending the supporting crusader movement to their cause?

Originally posted by milns Russians wasn't spreading christianaty like Latin church did it in all over the world, their main interest was to gather tax from conquered tribes and local religion wasnt so important

To Majkes.

Originally posted by John Lenon To Majkes. I think yo have some mistakes.   1. "Big part of Rus was conquered by pagan Lithuanians" Yes , but it was only in XIV century, but Baltic Crusades genereally were in XII-XIII. 2. In the Grand Duchy of Lithuania only some tribes left pagan till XV century : Samogitina (lithuanian: �emaitiu), they were last pagans in Europe. All  others tribes/territories were christen before: One part was Catholic, but the lagest part was Orthodox (let remember that the greatest part of lands Grand Duchy of Lithuania got after demolition of Kievan Rus' by mongols. Kievan Rus' inhabatinas had been christened in X-XI).