The Livonian War( 1558-1583)

I am posting here and do not consider this as off-topic, but it would be better if you could start a new topic such as:

There never was an unified state, although there was the Confederacy. Please, start such a new topic. The Confedercy was made up of different independent states (the Archbishopric of Riga, Bishopric of Tartu, Bishopric of Saare-L��ne, Livonian Order). Although they did gather once in a year ona maap�ev, it meant nothing more important as every of these states was independent and with their own rights. As I said, open a new topic so we can discuss it better.

    I would say that Order times was far mor free and happyer for locals for they still were free man, they could own weapons and had to serve their lord only few days in a year, they had allmost the same rights as in pagan times and they still worshiped old gods (up to 19 century in some places). Later, after Livonian war, locals slowly became slaves (worst was in 18 century). Swedish times was litlle exeption, but for short time only and only to about one half ro modern Latvias teritory.

Milns, are you from Latvia? I'm just curious.

Originally posted by rider The IP is very foolish.

Originally posted by milns     I would say that Order times was far mor free and happyer for locals for they still were free man, they could own weapons and had to serve their lord only few days in a year, they had allmost the same rights as in pagan times and they still worshiped old gods (up to 19 century in some places). Later, after Livonian war, locals slowly became slaves (worst was in 18 century). Swedish times was litlle exeption, but for short time only and only to about one half ro modern Latvias teritory.

Mils nomierienies

Edited by John Lenon - 23-Aug-2006 at 07:48

Originally posted by milns ... Yes, but don't you think that Latvian and maybe Estonian would be incorporated into Grand Duchy of Lithuania instead?

Originally posted by ataman Can you tell me what do people in Latvia know about this war? Is it important part of your history?

In Latvian historigraphy Livonian War is taken as symbolic end to Medieval times in Baltic, as the medieval state structures - bishopies, order state passed away.
For Baltic common people (Latvians, Estonians), this war was very horrible, the Russian raids were the most destructive and large part of population was killed and taken as captives to Russia.
There were no effective resistance from Livonians as the state was weakened by Reformation and quarells among confederacy members. At the start of war Livonian confederacy didn't have any decent army, because somewhere in the 16th century the Livonian landtag made law which forbad peasants to own weapons. The battle of Ergeme 1560 was the only battle fought between Confederacy and Muscovy and it was complete disaster. Livonians nummbered about 2000 (knights, light cavalry), Muscovy forces were about 30000.



Edited by axeman - 29-Aug-2006 at 12:10

Originally posted by rider Nope. I know nothing of Estonians taken as captives.   Oomuli wasn't definetly the only battle fought between the Order and Russians. As no formal state of the Confederacy of Livonia existed each state had to defend themselves with their own forces.   I was almost tempted to take that post down for foolishness and ignorance what we have written here before.

Well can you give me sources where there are other battles mentioned(not counting sieges), because Livonian confederacy collapsed as fast as Muscovians advanced.
For my references I am using primary source Chronica der Prouintz Lyfflandt 1583 by R�ssow Balthasar.