State vs guerillas and terrorism

Hi, I was wondering, considering the disproportion between the sizes of the big armies and the sizes of their current main enemies (guerrillas and terrorist groups), don't you see a kind of problem?

It is geneerally assumed the US "won" the Cold War thanks to the Star Wars the Russians weren't able catch up any more. But in this respect, the terrorists, the guerillas and the organized criminal are being much much more efficient. If you compare how expensive it was for the Brits to disrupt the plot last week and how expensive it had been to set it up -also I do not know the actual figures- the difference must be huge. The same goes for September 11 or for the wars in Irak, Kashimir and Afghanistan.

An hour in Irak for the US Army is more expensive that the all 9/11 attacks!!!

Can we change that? Would another type of army be more efficient? If so which one?

The centralized state for a long time had a competitive advantage over any other form of organization when it came to violence. Max Weber has called it the monopolization of violence. Yet, now some other form of violence could be more efficent. Milicias or people armies could be an option (see Switzerland, Cuba, Venezuela or even Israel). Private troops like mercenaries are another option. Finally, some private companies could hire and use according to their needs the troops. For instance, why the US government has to pay for the security in the planes with their Air Marshalls while the companies could perfectly get Air security of their own (after all they often check the luggages themselves).

M.

Well it is a very very interesting proposal... I had never though about it but yes it could work quite well. And even if all the terrorist leaders don't take the offer it may well poison the relationships they have one with another. Of course there would be a few problems. Who is bad enough to deserve the money and who should just be hunted down. Actually this solution may work better in a smaller scale like Irak only or Afghanistan only for instance. One more problem Osama is already a billionair...

Just one thing did you mean the Dutch in Indonesia or the English in Malaysia?

Great idea nonetheless.

Originally posted by Paul What is actually needed is a financially more efficient way of waging war.  And there is an example in the past. The British war with Indonesia. In that war rather than commit huge numbers of ground troops at great expense, Britain just paid off the enemy.

Does, "Rome doesn't pay traitors" conjur up images in your mind?    More seriously, that is more or less what we did in Afghanistan, mind you.

Govt. forces & terrorists can never be compared. Gurillas & terrorists are not the same. Terrorists are criminals while gurillas are fighters. A case in teh point is the LTTE. It is a gurilla organisation. While hjizbollah is clearly a  terrorist organisaton. An state army can successfully & efficiently fight a gurilla army, but it is impossible for any state army to finish off terrorism. That needs a political solution.

Turkey is the most succesful country against guerillas.the key is intelligence and elite commando forces.

The problem is simple The US can win the war, but to do so they will have o undertake actions which will have very disaterous consequences. Such as flattening the Sunni triangle.

Sparten hits the nail on the head.  From what I've seen, there are two very different ways to win a counterinsurgency, but anything in the middle won't work.

Originally posted by Vivek Sharma Sparten is right, the only way out is what he says flattening the area ocuupied by active & more importantly passive terrorists.

Edited by Cryptic - 26-Sep-2006 at 17:51

Originally posted by Maharbbal Antipartisan wars are rarely sucessful. In the last hundred years I cannot think of more than 10 victories of Goliat.

Actually, there are a few others:

Spain and France against Marocan guerilla in the Rif War of  1920-1921.
The Mahdi War of ... hum... the 1920's (?)
The Weimar Rep against various uprisings.
Nigerian agaisnt Rebels in 1968
Congo against Katanga
MPLA against UNITA (helped by Executive Outcomes)
Sierra Leone govt against RUF rebels (Helped by Executive Outcomes)
And so on... Papua Guinea, Pigs Bay, HELLAS in Greece, Islamist in Algeria, Egypt and other places...