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The Battle of Thermopylae - Persian View

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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Battle of Thermopylae - Persian View
    Posted: 12-Aug-2006 at 12:39

In leau of the new upcoming movie (Titled '300')  by the comic adaptation of the battle at Thermopylae, is there any Persian sources of the battle?



Edited by Afghanan - 12-Aug-2006 at 12:40
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  Quote Ave1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2006 at 13:21
I know one thing is for sure, the Greek sources is completly exagerrated, indicating that they were vastly outnumbered.   Hopefully we can get some more accurate and neutral sources.  
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2006 at 13:47
For Iranians it was not a battle but just a minor skirmish.
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  Quote Odin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2006 at 22:55
There wrn't just 300 Greeks at the battle, since the Spartans brought a few thousand soldiers from thier satelite states.Greek writers also greatly exaggerated the number of Persian troops. I'd sat it was around ~5,000 Greeks against ~20,000 Persians.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2006 at 02:32
It was the terrain. Me thinks this movie is going to show them in open field.
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  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2006 at 11:16
Yes, it was very easy for the Spartans to defend a little alley with a phalanx. If they had been on the open field, they would have been flanked and slaughtered with much less Persian casualties.

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  Quote YusakuJon3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2006 at 20:00
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

For Iranians it was not a battle but just a minor skirmish.
That's pretty much it in a nutshell.  The real fights didn't come until Salamis and at Palatea in the following year.  My guess is that if King Xerxes didn't lose that fleet, the ancient Hellenes would've been another (rather troublesome) satellite kingdom added to the long list that his predecessors had built up.
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  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 08:55
In fact I have always thought Leonidas and the Spartans as fools. They died for nothing, there is no honour in that.
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 09:32
Originally posted by Emperor Barbarossa

Yes, it was very easy for the Spartans to defend a little alley with a phalanx. If they had been on the open field, they would have been flanked and slaughtered with much less Persian casualties.

They DID get flanked and slaughtered after a greek traitor showed the Persians a way around the pass through the mountain. But that 300 spartans killed 20000 persians is a little unlikely.
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  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 10:34
I mean that they would have been flanked immediately, vulkan02, and would have not caused as many casualties. I doubt the Spartans killed 20,000 Persians, but they may have killed 5,000-10,000.

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  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 23:26
If not for the unusual amount of "coverage" from Greek sources that inflate the battle to epic proportions, even Western histories would have viewed it as a skirmish. There were probably dozens of similar battles not well known today.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 00:13
Yes, Kohima in Burma deuing WWII. And this time the defending party actually won.
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  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 00:30
Well, actually I was thinking of possible similar battles/skirmishes in the Persian conquest. Before the Persians invaded mainland Greece, they had already conquered all the Greek states of Asia minor, but popular history has very little coverage for those battles.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 14:18
Sonce the wrong side won.
And please the Persians did not lose any land battle in 480/479 BC. Even Platrea was a draw. Athens was still Persian.
 
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  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2006 at 04:09

I really think that the Greek side is really, obviously bias. There were probably far more Spartan Hoplites at the battle; there is no way that 300 of them could have held that pass as long as they were supposed to have done.

Athens was still Persian.
 
Athens was, at the time of Theropyle, a major player in the anti-Persian alliance. For example, Cimon, one of the later Athenian statesmen and Generals under Aristides, almost pressed the Persians out of Egypt. It is fair to say that Athenian military expidtions were one of the key factors against the Persians. Had the other city states actually given more men and ships to the league rather than simple currency, the Athenians could have given the Persians a more crushing blow, and if Cimon had not been exiled for pro-Spartan sympathies, they would not have lost such a fine general
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2006 at 14:01

First of all,they were 1.000 Hellens in the battle:700 Thespians and 300 Spartans.There were more Hellens before the  battle but they were told to leave by Leonidas.The number of the Spartans is in fact very reasonable if we consider the fact that Spartans never had many troops in the battlefield due too their  low population.For example ,3.000 Spartans were a very big force for the Ancient Hellenic data warfare.Moreover ,Spartans never sent huge forces far from their homeland and generally Peloponessus because such an action would weaken homeland defence ,thus permitting the helotes to uprise .And Spartans did not want a possible uprising  of the helotes.The whole Spartiatic System was built in order to create a powerfull war machine,thus preventing the helotes and the perioikoi from a possible uprising.The Thespian numbers are also very reasonable,if we consider the fact that their population was also small.For example the Athenians,with a population of more than 100.000,could have in the battlefield 10 to 15.000 men.How many troops could the Thespians have if their population was much smaller than the Athenian one?Simply ,very few.

Concerning the issue of whether it was a battle or a skirmish,the differences in the size  and the data warfare of both armies does not allow to clarify whether it was really a battle or a skirmish.For Ancient Hellenic  data warfare ,10.000 men were in fact a very big military force,but for the Persians ,who could have more than 200.000 men in the battlefield, was only a small guard.For a Persian maybe was a skirmish due to fact that he didn't consider the  gathered Hellens in Thermopylae as an actual force ,,due to their tiny size.But for the Thespians it was  a tough battle sinced  every Thespian that could carry a weapon,the entire Thespian army was sent to to defend  it's homeland.
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2006 at 14:07
Before the Persians invaded mainland Greece, they had already conquered all the Greek states of Asia minor,
 
The Hellenic city-States of Asia Minor were in fact much weaker than those of the Hellenic mainland.And sth that people continuasly ignore:the fiighting capabilities of Ancient Hellenswere closely connected  with their city's freedom.Athens and Sparta and Corinth had very good armies due to the fact that they were free.
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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 22:41

If you remember, in 2003 when US invaded Iraq US forces were held back for a little while in Nasiriyah by a few of Saddams Fedayeen . Thermopylae may just be the exaggerated version of the same thing which happened a few thousands years a go.

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  Quote Travis Congleton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2006 at 12:39
Miller: "If you remember, in 2003 when US invaded Iraq US forces were held back for a little while in Nasiriyah by a few of Saddams Fedayeen."
============================
Minus the amount of casualties, of course.  Tongue

I smell an awful lot of Persian Party Poopers.

If the troop amount was 'only' 20,000.  The logistics wouldn't be such a burden as it was.  Xerxes may have had (supposively) an enormous army, but he definitely brought a large fleet with his 'tiny' army.

The Persian economy and population-base could easily provide 80,000 troops.  Why, then, only 20,000?  Would you go on amphibious campaign into relatively unknown territory with a token force?  A token force to show value of strength of the Persian Empire?  Hardly.

If you answer is yes, well then, your answer in itself is 'exaggerated'.

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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2006 at 13:21

There was no such thing as technological gap 2500 years ago. Persians could not sit in their high flying planes and drop bombs. Anyone could have caused casualties to anyone in hand to hand combat

And not to worry there is a guarantee that the movie is going to have a very anti Iranian theme and that is where most people learn about history. It has more to do with todays political environment and Irans current unbalanced approach toward Israel than with the ancient history
 
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