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The Battle of Thermopylae - Persian View

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  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Battle of Thermopylae - Persian View
    Posted: 03-Sep-2006 at 08:08
I agree, I heard the last 300 Spartans was awesome, but this one looks like a punk rock remake of the other one.

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  Quote Behzad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2006 at 10:06
Stupid thing is however, that some people will actually think it's entirely true and believe Xerxes and Persians actually looked like that...
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  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2006 at 13:25
Yes, which is exactly what happened with Braveheart.

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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 05:40
Originally posted by Laelius

 

 

Sparta... free... right... 35,000 of the hellenic troops at Plataea were helot slaves.

 
 
Just because a State has slaves doesn't mean that it is not independent.Hellow,Sparta had it's own independent goverment and army to defend it's independent people! Helotes were not  Spartans! 

 

 

 

Actually there were 7,000 Greeks and the Persians likely had around 200,000 given the nature of the Persian empire this number is not unlikely.  Especially since many of these troops are poorly equipped and with almost no training.  Consider the accounts of Cstesias who described portions of the Persian force as being armed with no more than daggers.  As for the Greeks we know that they were on average far more heavily armed and typically much better trained.  Furthermore the numerical disadvantage was nullified by two very important factors.  First the narrowness of the pass which negated the numberical advantage of the Persian army.  Second the numerical disparity was not as great as it seems on account that Leonidas had set up a relay system with nearby cities in order to rotate his troops and maintain fresh troops at his front.  Its possible that while the Greek army present might have never exceeded 7k that perhaps as many as 12 might have fought at thermo over the course of the battle.  Now asides from the factors just mentioned I would argue that the vast majority of Persians killed at Thermopylae found their end not at the tips and blades of the spears and swords of Greece but by the fearsome feet of their compatriots.

 
Hellens were not more than 1.000 men,for reasons i've already stated.Spartans were heavily armed,yes,but the Thespians ,who were 2 times more than Spartans,did not have the equipment Spartans had.Moreover ,Persians had hundreds of archers while Hellens totally lacked  them.
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  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 06:57
But why would Sparta teach its "slaves" to fight?
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  Quote Laelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 15:34
independent.Hellow,Sparta had it's own independent goverment and army to defend it's independent people! Helotes were not  Spartans!
 
Sparta had independence yes, but freedom hardly.  It was an oligarchy with an emphasis on military service by all male citizens which derived its muscle from its subject peoples.   You're attempting to understand a culture far different from your own with a sense of modern day romanticism.  A Spartan would have placed far more emphasis on honor and service than freedom, well alright the Spartan kings frequently expressed opinions similar to your own but thats an exception.  As to your last statement, Sparta never would have become great without the Helots to till the land and provide food and sustenance to its armies. 
 
Hellens were not more than 1.000 men,for reasons i've already stated.Spartans were heavily armed,yes,but the Thespians ,who were 2 times more than Spartans,did not have the equipment Spartans had.Moreover ,Persians had hundreds of archers while Hellens totally lacked  them.
 
I suppose you know better than Cstesias and Herrodutos who placed the Greek force between 5-7K, and acknowledged Leonidas continous replacement and rotation of non Spartiate soldiers...
 
Yes, which is exactly what happened with Braveheart.
 
Which reminds me I still need to respond to the nonsense you posted in that thread Tongue
 
In all honesty guys settle down, even if this film does create the wrong impression who is going to remember it 100 years from now?
 


Edited by Laelius - 04-Sep-2006 at 18:56
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 11:35
 Sparta had a very complex govermental system ,with elements from oligarchy,monarchy and democracy:the 2 kings-monarchy,the Apella and the 5 ephors-democracy,the Senet-Oligarchy.It relied on slaves,yes,but it would be foolish to say that in order to accuse them.In the Ancient World  ,slaves were a standard class,on the very bottom of Ancient societes.There were no civilizations in the known Ancient World without any kind of slavery,physical or mental.
 
And i am not talking about standard things.I am talking about  the freedom of  the Ancient Hellen citizens .All Ancient Hellen  citizens,Spartans,Athenians etc who llived in a city-State with free and independent goverment enjoyed the freedom and the rights their city provided as well as their obligations towards their city-State and fellow citizens.
 
Sparta's greatness allways lied in it's tought militaristic life and it's courageous land armed forces, which were the best of their time in the whole Ancient Hellenic World.And nobody can deprive that from them.
 
Concerning Herodotus ,he made  mistakes.The main Spartan army was it's hoplites.Of course there were auxilliary men,but they were  responsible for  the supplies and generally the suppport of the main Spartan Army,the Spartan hoplites.The biggest army Spartans gathered during the Persian wars was the 5.000 Spartan hoplites in the battle of Plataia.The biggest army they ever gathered were the 8.000 Spartan hoplites in the battle of Mantineia much later,during the Peloponessian War.Their small population as well as the fear of a possible uprising from the much more helots never allowed them  to send big forces outside of Peloponessus.That's why they created the Peloponnesian alliance in the first place,in order to create a defensive wall by allied States so they can protect their land ,since  they weren't able to send great forces to fight far from home for a great period of time.In fact,even the death of 200 Spartan hoplites was considered a tragic loss from Spartan citizens and goverment.
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  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 18:56
Originally posted by Laelius

Yes, which is exactly what happened with Braveheart.
 
Which reminds me I still need to respond to the nonsense you posted in that thread Tongue

I got overzealous in attacking Wallace, but he never had a major victory, and his only notable battle was a horrific loss.



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  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 23:06
Spartakus, when King Bardylis of Illyria invaded and subjigated Epirus, it is said that the Spartans then invaded Epirus, defeated Bardylis, and pushed him back to Illyria in 385 bc.
Now if im not mistaken, Bardylis conquered Epirus with a large army. I was just wondering if you are anyone else could tell me approximately how many soldiers did Sparta use in order to accomplish the victory.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 15:44
Originally posted by Raider

In fact I have always thought Leonidas and the Spartans as fools. They died for nothing, there is no honour in that.


I don't think they died for nothing, after all we are still talking about it today.


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  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 23:23
Originally posted by oneeye

Originally posted by Raider

In fact I have always thought Leonidas and the Spartans as fools. They died for nothing, there is no honour in that.


I don't think they died for nothing, after all we are still talking about it today.


 
I couldnt have said it better.
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  Quote Ey_Iran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 02:33
Originally posted by Spartakus

 Sparta had a very complex govermental system ,with elements from oligarchy,monarchy and democracy:the 2 kings-monarchy,the Apella and the 5 ephors-democracy,the Senet-Oligarchy.It relied on slaves,yes,but it would be foolish to say that in order to accuse them.In the Ancient World  ,slaves were a standard class,on the very bottom of Ancient societes.There were no civilizations in the known Ancient World without any kind of slavery,physical or mental.
 


Well there is persia... The first charter of human rights. Syrus the founder of persia made laws, no slaves allowed. Women have equal power et c. Persepolis was built by payed workers and some female supervisors! PErsia had no slaves ever and it existed. As soon as Alexander the god of War died the greek army was crushed.
=)
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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 05:13
Originally posted by Penelope

Spartakus, when King Bardylis of Illyria invaded and subjigated Epirus, it is said that the Spartans then invaded Epirus, defeated Bardylis, and pushed him back to Illyria in 385 bc.
Now if im not mistaken, Bardylis conquered Epirus with a large army. I was just wondering if you are anyone else could tell me approximately how many soldiers did Sparta use in order to accomplish the victory.
Diodoros , the ancient writer that mentioned this part of history never said numbers.So is hard to find out the numbers.
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 15:39
Originally posted by Ey_Iran

  
Well there is persia... The first charter of human rights. Syrus the founder of persia made laws, no slaves allowed. Women have equal power et c. Persepolis was built by payed workers and some female supervisors! PErsia had no slaves ever and it existed. As soon as Alexander the god of War died the greek army was crushed.
 
How naive can people be!!!!!!!LOLLOLLOL
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  Quote Cent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 15:59
"Well there is persia... The first charter of human rights. Syrus the founder of persia made laws, no slaves allowed. Women have equal power et c. Persepolis was built by payed workers and some female supervisors! PErsia had no slaves ever and it existed. As soon as Alexander the god of War died the greek army was crushed."
 
Actually they had slaves...
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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  Quote Cent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 16:00
Ey_Iran, where did you read all this?
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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  Quote Ey_Iran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 20:21
Wath the f**k you people didnt know? Its till in the france national museum. They didnt have slaves cause Iran, not persia it was wath the greeks called us. Iran have been called Iran for 7000 years.  Anyway Iran was the land of the free.

The First Charter Of Human Rights Written By The Iranian / Persian Emperor, Kourosh The Great, 2,500 Years Ago

I Am Kourosh The Great King... Now That I Put The Crown Of The Kingdom Of Persia.., Babylon.., And The Nations Of The Four Directions On The Head With The Help Of Ahura.., I Announce That I Will Respect The Traditions.., Customs And Religions Of The Nations Of My Empire And Never Let Any Of My Governors And Subordinates Look Down On Or Insult Them While I Am Alive... I Will Impose My Monarchy On No Nation... Each Is Free To Accept It, And If Any One Of Them Rejects It.., I Never Resolve On War To Reign... While I Am The King... I Will Never Let Anyone Oppress Others... I Will Never Let Anyone Take Possession Of Movable And Landed Properties Of The Others By Force Or Without Compensation... While I Am Alive.., I Will Prevent Unpaid.., Forced Labor... Today.., I Announce That Everyone Is Free To Choose A Religion... No One Could Be Penalized For His Or Her Relatives' Faults...

Kourosh The Great


http://www.venusproject.com/Great_Persian_Empire/kourosh_the_great.html
=)
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  Quote Ey_Iran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 20:24
Then Alexander the evil came and made slaves and killed all in persepolis. Raped and took away women their democratic rights. Forcing greek tyrannic undemocratic rule.
=)
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  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 22:45
Originally posted by akritas

Originally posted by Penelope

Spartakus, when King Bardylis of Illyria invaded and subjigated Epirus, it is said that the Spartans then invaded Epirus, defeated Bardylis, and pushed him back to Illyria in 385 bc.
Now if im not mistaken, Bardylis conquered Epirus with a large army. I was just wondering if you are anyone else could tell me approximately how many soldiers did Sparta use in order to accomplish the victory.
Diodoros , the ancient writer that mentioned this part of history never said numbers.So is hard to find out the numbers.
 
Fair enough.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 05:44
Ey_Iran, I have previously asked you to look at the rules before you post again, obviously you have not.
 
Warning's in the post.
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