Steppe Empires and their relation with Ch

In a 1981 edition of the Journal of Asian Studies, Barfield made the argument that most steppe empires thrived on the relation with China, which "funded" the nomads with trade and gave the nomads a political agenda to keep themselves united:

• "The imperial overnment (of the Xiong Nu) was at its most powerful and highly centralized when it conducted foreign affairs and organized military campaigns. It was least powerful and most decentralized at the local level where it ceded political power to the indigenous tribal leaders who were responsible for handling most domestic problems."

Of course, the most convenient "military campaign" would be south on the Chinese border. He also argued:

• "The imperial level of government was financed by drawing on resources from outside the steppe, not by taxing the nomadic animal breeders from within the empire."

i.e. Drawing resources through trade and raiding. Generalizing the argument, he wrote:

• "Nomadic conquerors who created empires along the lines of the Xiong nu and used them to exploit China produced powerful states that survived their founders. Those nomadic conquerors who failed to see that a nomadic state required the support of resources from outside the steppe had their empires collapsed or suffer a power vacuum at their deaths."
  

So essentially, the importance of China to the steppes empires, as argued, was that it provided the nomads with resources. For this reason, Barfield argued that nomads did not perfer to entirely conquer China, but maintain an aggressive relation in order to exact the resources. A long, drawn-out attempt of conquest would be too costly, and on the other extreme, an isolationist policy would not generate the economic activity to "fund" the steppe empire.

Since no nomadic power completely conquered China until the Mongols, this observation appears to hold true for at least 1000 years of history before the 13th century.

The centralized power of the nomadic state was derived from achieving the goals described above. An example, provided in the article is that:

• The notable successes founded along Xiong nu lines were those of the Turks and Uighurs who dominated the steppe from the middle of the sixth century... Both successfully forced China to fund a complex state by extorting subsidies and controlling a vast quantity of silk.
  
  In 840, the Kirghiz successfully destroyed the Uighur state and occupied its heartland, but they proved incapable of recreating the complex relationship that the Uighurs had established with Tang China, which funded the Uighur state. AS a result, no Kirghiz state ever came into existence...nor attain any power over the rest of the steppes.
  

completely agree with this view. many Steppe empires will also have realized this and looked how to get rid of thsi dependence or symbiotic relationship, so they attempted to conquer (at least partially) China, but the obvious failure of those conquests was the loss of Nomad tradition above all, including corruption through civilization, the loss of small but strong and disciplined nomad horse armies as opposed to huge Chinese peasant infantry militias. as a result, those sinified nomad empires were unable to retain control of the steppe and were unable to protect themselves from new emerging powers from the steppe.

Ive also heard about western steppes being more fertile.It doenst explain why the eastern steppe armies seemed to have higher populations than the western ones. 

Aside from military campaigns, is there any instance where a people migrated west to east along the steppe?

Manchus never reached to Buryat Mongol. Buryat Mongol came under Russia at that time.

Originally posted by cliveersknell 2 nomadic peoples truly united China and defined her present day borders with her capitol in Beijing 1. Mongols- built Beijing ; brought Xinjiang, Tibet, Heilongjiang, Yunnan into the empire 2. Manchus - Were a legacy of the Mongols, and ruled China with it's present boundaries with the addition of Mongolia and Buryat Mongolia. r's Clive

It was Manchu who annexed Xinjiang. Yuan, if considered to be a Chinese dynasty, didn't brought Xinjiang to her land. Chaghatai were ruling this region.


    

What about the migration of the Torgut from the Volga to Xinjiang in 1771(?)

Hi Tolui
Thanks for your enlightening reply about Beijing. Khubilai's palace was actually in Beihai park, and one of the white dagoba's is a living relic of the Dadu.
Regarding the Manchus, true, Nurhaci proclaimed the revival of the Jin state .
However, Hongtaiji, changed all that and proclaimed the
"Qing" dynasty, he not only included Nuzhens but also
Mongols ( Horcins, Kharachins, Khalkhas, etc.. primarily
eastern mongols), Koreans, and Hans.
Hongtaiji also married Buumbutai, or Xiaozhuang, who was a
Horcin princess, and a descendant of CK. Hongtaiji's son
and succeeding Manchu emperors carried down the seed of
CK.
After the defeat of Galdan, and the return of the Torguts
all Mongols from east to west recognized the Qing emperor
as their Khakhan.
The Manchu language itself was a derivate of the mongol
script and was completely different than the old Nuzhen
script. The Manchu peoples themselves may not be totally
Nuzhen, remember, when Ck destroyed the Jin empire, he
reinstated the Liao kingdom in Liaoning, henceforth many
Qidans resettled in their ancestral homeland. The Nuzhens
on the other hand were scattered to the 4 winds. From this
I would logically guess that the Manchu people had more
Qidan in them than Nuzhen. Henceforth this makes them even
closer to the Mongols.
r's
CLive

The facts speak for themselves, the mongols and manchus

Originally posted by cliveersknell The facts speak for themselves, the mongols and manchus 1. united China 2. Defined the borders of present day PRC, which is a subset of their respective empires 3. Made Beijing the capitol . 4. Mandarin or putonghua was developed later in the Qing dynasty, this language is till today the official language of the PRC. Despite their nomadic backgrounds, without them China as we know it today would never exist.