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Attila the Hun-is he Asian or Indo-European?
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Seljuk View Drop Down
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Posts: 80 		  Quote Seljuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Attila the Hun-is he Asian or Indo-European?
    Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 15:59
I think colors represent geographic locasions for Turco-Mongolic tribes and Chinese. Like Blue for east (like GokTurks- blue turks), red for west, white for south.(Btw there was a tribe called red huns i think)

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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 16:01
That is exactly what I think also.
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Interesting
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Posts: 238 		  Quote Kids Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 16:12
By the way, has anyone played Rome Total War: Barbarian Invasion? Does the customs, appearance and weapons of Huns of the game reflect the historical reality?
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Originally posted by Kids

"When you said asiatic you do not mean mongoloid, don't you?"
 
Most of academic books I read about Huns relate Huns (especailly the descriptions of Attila from the Greek author) to the modern East Asians and Mongolians.
 
Interestingly, according to ancient Chinese records about Xiongnu, Xiongnu were described as people with blue eyes. So, I guess if Xiongnu, who lived closed to East Asia, had Indo-European appearance, there is no doubt that later Huns (whether they are related to Xiongu or not) must have Mongoloid characters.
 
Afterall, Center Asia has been described by historians as high way to civilizations; different people met and interact.
 
They could just as easily have been Tokharians or those who has mixed with them.
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Posts: 154 		  Quote Attila2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2006 at 17:04
Originally posted by arras

Turks and Iranians are also Indo-European.

 
whoooaaa waitaminute! Turks are not indo european...we are definately central asian :) well...we speak an altaic language at least...
 
oh btw,well Attila was central asian,without doubt.Dont be deceived by the pics of him depicted by the romans...those guys had a tendancy towards "enwhitening" people which they depicted&drew (Jesus,hannibal etc):P


Edited by Attila2 - 09-Jul-2006 at 17:06
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Posts: 0 		  Quote arras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 08:33
I must apologize to all Turkic members here for claiming Turkic tribes to be Indo-European. What confused me was that they should be descendants of Japhet which were tought to be Indo-Europeans.
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Posts: 0 		  Quote arras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 08:40
Kids >> RTW is nice strategy but I would not take its historical walue too seriously. There are many things which are not accurate and some even false. And I don't men only military units.
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Posts: 2408 		  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 09:19
Originally posted by arras

I must apologize to all Turkic members here for claiming Turkic tribes to be Indo-European. What confused me was that they should be descendants of Japhet which were tought to be Indo-Europeans.
No need to apologize, in the medievals Ottomans tought they where also a descendants of Japhet's son "Turk".
Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı
[IMG">http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg">
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Posts: 241 		  Quote minchickie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 00:09
Originally posted by Raider

Originally posted by Kids

My mistake, Raider. Somone in my Ancient history class sent the picture to me and claimed it was from Hungary.

So, Raider, do people of Hungary associate Attila as European or Asian on TV or movies???
It is from Hungary, but it is not Attila's statue.
 
Well, Hungarians -generally speaking- associate Attila with a Hungarian thus a European.
 
 
 
As a Hungarian myself I have to say that;  Attila is our hero, our legend, our history, father, etc... (of course some Hungarians will differ), yes he is Asiatic/causcasian just like us Hungarians are. (we know where we  come from even though we are "Europeans" today). We know we are non-Indo European. Our language and our cultural history are from Asia. It is up to the imagination of the individual themselves whether they feel a "closeness" to something or another. In my case,....Hunnic. Smile
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Posts: 89 		  Quote JuMong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 03:25

Originally posted by arras

Huns were Indo-European people as well as Allans, Sarmatians, all Turkic tribes, Scithians, Bulgars, Avars and other nomadic people who came from central Asia. Etnicaly they had same origin as most other European, Iranian and Indian (Aryana) people and their language was part of Indo-European group. There are some doubds if Ugro-Finish languages are part of Indo-European group but then that Hungarian people are direct descendants of Huns is questionable. Some historians claim it is only part of national myth like many similar across other nations.
Notice that people of Hungaria don't call themself Huns but Magiars and they don't call their country Hungaria.

Do not be confused about their "asiatic" look.


Originally posted by arras

I must apologize to all Turkic members here for claiming Turkic tribes to be Indo-European. What confused me was that they should be descendants of Japhet which were tought to be Indo-Europeans.




This guy is full of crap. He has no idea what he's talking about. An unfortunate, backward Eastern European with a racist agenda. The whole concept of Indo-European is archaic in nature.  Unfortunately, he's reading  from a  History books that's 20 years out of date.

The Romans themselves described him as having Mongoloid features. End of story. There's nothing about the Huns that's Indo-European in nature or origin, or whatever that means. History Channel had a nice feature on the Barbaric Hoards, and they talked about the recovered skulls of the Huns which clearly showed marked Mongoloid features:

"The main source for information on Attila is Priscus, a historian who traveled with Maximin on an embassy from Theodosius II in 448. He describes the village the nomadic Huns had built and settled down in as the size of the great city with solid wooden walls. He described Attila himself as:

"short of stature, with a broad chest and a large head; his eyes were small, his beard thin and sprinkled with gray; and he had a flat nose and a swarthy complexion, showing the evidences of his origin."

Attila's physical appearance was most likely that of an Eastern Asian or more specifically a Mongol ethnicity, or perhaps a mixture of this type and the Turkic peoples of Central Asia. Indeed, he probably exhibited the characteristic Eastern Asian facial features, which Europeans were not used to seeing, and so they often described him in harsh terms."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attila_the_Hun


Learn to Google.




Edited by JuMong - 12-Jul-2006 at 04:42
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Posts: 431 		  Quote Nagyfejedelem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 04:43

European Huns had tipycal Turkish names: Munjuk, Aibars, Denghizik, Octar, Karaton etc. The origin of the Huns is solved.
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Posts: 89 		  Quote JuMong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 04:47
Originally posted by Nagyfejedelem

European Huns had tipycal Turkish names: Munjuk, Aibars, Denghizik, Octar, Karaton etc. The origin of the Huns is solved.



Turkic names mean crap. Languages mean crap.

Only thing that's going to solve this riddle is a DNA test on recovered Hun skeletons.
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Posts: 804 		  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 06:10
Originally posted by JuMong

Originally posted by Nagyfejedelem

European Huns had tipycal Turkish names: Munjuk, Aibars, Denghizik, Octar, Karaton etc. The origin of the Huns is solved.



Turkic names mean crap. Languages mean crap.

Only thing that's going to solve this riddle is a DNA test on recovered Hun skeletons.



DNA test means crap. Nations, tribes mixed. Wink
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Posts: 352 		  Quote yan. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 07:54
Originally posted by Maziar

If Huns were IE so why there were a groupe among them called "white Huns"? I mean there must be a reason to differe the white Huns from another Huns, don't you think?
 
Like with White Russians, or Red Chinese? Was the Golden Horde called Golden because of the skin colour of its ruling class?
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Posts: 290 		  Quote Scytho-Sarmatian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 08:05
Originally posted by JuMong


Originally posted by arras

Huns were Indo-European people as well as Allans, Sarmatians, all Turkic tribes, Scithians, Bulgars, Avars and other nomadic people who came from central Asia. Etnicaly they had same origin as most other European, Iranian and Indian (Aryana) people and their language was part of Indo-European group. There are some doubds if Ugro-Finish languages are part of Indo-European group but then that Hungarian people are direct descendants of Huns is questionable. Some historians claim it is only part of national myth like many similar across other nations.
Notice that people of Hungaria don't call themself Huns but Magiars and they don't call their country Hungaria.

Do not be confused about their "asiatic" look.


Originally posted by arras

I must apologize to all Turkic members here for claiming Turkic tribes to be Indo-European. What confused me was that they should be descendants of Japhet which were tought to be Indo-Europeans.




This guy is full of crap. He has no idea what he's talking about. An unfortunate, backward Eastern European with a racist agenda. The whole concept of Indo-European is archaic in nature.  Unfortunately, he's reading  from a  History books that's 20 years out of date.

The Romans themselves described him as having Mongoloid features. End of story. There's nothing about the Huns that's Indo-European in nature or origin, or whatever that means. History Channel had a nice feature on the Barbaric Hoards, and they talked about the recovered skulls of the Huns which clearly showed marked Mongoloid features:

"The main source for information on Attila is Priscus, a historian who traveled with Maximin on an embassy from Theodosius II in 448. He describes the village the nomadic Huns had built and settled down in as the size of the great city with solid wooden walls. He described Attila himself as:

"short of stature, with a broad chest and a large head; his eyes were small, his beard thin and sprinkled with gray; and he had a flat nose and a swarthy complexion, showing the evidences of his origin."

Attila's physical appearance was most likely that of an Eastern Asian or more specifically a Mongol ethnicity, or perhaps a mixture of this type and the Turkic peoples of Central Asia. Indeed, he probably exhibited the characteristic Eastern Asian facial features, which Europeans were not used to seeing, and so they often described him in harsh terms."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attila_the_Hun


Learn to Google.


You people really need to read what this fellow posted.  He really makes an undeniable point, but most of you are trapped in a racist mindset, so you deny historical facts, which is really bad.Thumbs Down  It's funny, because before I discovered the Internet, all of my sources referred to the Huns as a people who originated in the vicinity of Mongolia.  Then I come to this website and I get all these wild theories on how it is impossible for them to have been mongoloid in appearance.  The actual evidence, however, clearly shows otherwise.
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Posts: 352 		  Quote yan. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 08:23
I didn't comment on Attila's appearance. From what I have read, the appearance of the Huns is rather unclear in general, because few physical remains have been found due to the common practice of cremation. And those that have been found usually had artificially deformed skulls, making the task even more complicated.
 
If you'd ask me, I'd say an asian appearance would be "not unlikely".
 
But assuming that colours in the name of a political/ethnical group must be related to the skin or hair colours of its members seems a bit odd to me.
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Posts: 241 		  Quote minchickie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 11:31
Originally posted by JuMong

Originally posted by Nagyfejedelem

European Huns had tipycal Turkish names: Munjuk, Aibars, Denghizik, Octar, Karaton etc. The origin of the Huns is solved.



Turkic names mean crap. Languages mean crap.

Only thing that's going to solve this riddle is a DNA test on recovered Hun skeletons.



 
 
Even if they were "Turks" , they probably share very little if any DNA with that of Turks today who share the same Mediteranian genes of that of Greeks. FACT.
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Posts: 238 		  Quote Kids Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 14:55
"Turks today who share the same Mediteranian genes of that of Greeks"
 
Is that true?
 
But, anyway, Attila is not Indo-European, but Eastern Asia. He is probably the descendent of the famous Xiongnu (who probably had a mixture of both Asians and Indo-Europeans as many Chinese literatures and paintings shown that Xiongnu had blue eye colors. In Xingjiang province, there are even Celtic mummies with blue eyes and blond hairs!!!) 
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Posts: 238 		  Quote Kids Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 14:57
By the way, minchickie, you mentioned that Hungarians are not Indo-Europeans? But they looks Europeans to me....
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