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Attila the Hun-is he Asian or Indo-European?
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Posts: 28 		  Quote Celestial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Attila the Hun-is he Asian or Indo-European?
    Posted: 24-Sep-2006 at 21:58
    Attila was a Turkic leader. Huns were Central Asians so Attila looked not European but Mongolian.
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Posts: 106 		  Quote omergun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Sep-2006 at 21:55
Originally posted by Kids

From most of books I read, Atilla is identified with Oriental (Eastern Asian) characters (yellowish skin, short, small eyes, flat nose as according to Priscus's encounter with Attila).
 
But why then in Hungary Attila (as a national hero in Hungary) is depicted as European like figure as well as in recent American movie Attila???
 
 
Is is because Europeans can not accept the fact that Attila is non-white? 


First of all Atilla is Trkish. His appearence is Trkish. He is the most famous TrkHun leader in the medieval. In the medieval he succeeded bringing all TrkHuns together and making a dynamic force.  He wanted to make the from the Balkans to the Chinese wall Great TrkHun Empire bigger. Atilla begon his European conquer journey with EastRoma(Byzantium). In 434 he forced the EastRomans to make peace-contracts and pay taxes. After his brother Bleda died, he became the leader of the TrkHun Empire in 445. He had West-Asia and Middle-Europe in his controls. Both Romans werent able to fight TrkHun Empire. Atilla died in 453. After his dead the TrkHun Empire Empire weakened. TrkHuns from Middle-Europe went back to the east. Some of them stayed in the Hungary of now. Hungarian people from Hunnic origin are from Trkic origin.


Edited by omergun - 24-Sep-2006 at 21:59
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Posts: 0 		  Quote elnet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 15:43
Smile  book's name is HUNS                                                                  
      
       writer's name is MARCEL BRİON   
 
       HE İS A FRENC WRİTER 
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Posts: 1914 		  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2006 at 14:46
Originally posted by Leonardo

And to describe what you call a preference for "the life in steppes and tents to life in cities and houses" you use the word "hateful".
Obviously you are not biased.
 
 
 
 
Attila was hateful of such a lifestyle, yes...Not myself.


Edited by Kapikulu - 18-Mar-2007 at 08:09
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli
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Posts: 778 		  Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2006 at 13:41
And to describe what you call a preference for "the life in steppes and tents to life in cities and houses" you use the word "hateful".
Obviously you are not biased.
 
 
 
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Posts: 1914 		  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2006 at 13:17
Originally posted by Leonardo

Originally posted by Kapikulu

 
Attila, who passed his childhood in Rome, sometimes being together with Vandal prince and king-to-be Geiserich, was obviously hateful of Roman lifestyle..  
 
 
And you are obviously unbiased towards what you call "Roman lifestyle", which you obviously know perfectly ...
 
 
 
 
QuestionI didn't really understand what you meant out there...Having and stating no specific negative or positive thoughts over Roman lifestyle, I was trying to explain Attila's point of view, who liked and preferred the life in steppes and tents to life in cities and houses.
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli
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Posts: 778 		  Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2006 at 12:57
Originally posted by Kapikulu

 
Attila, who passed his childhood in Rome, sometimes being together with Vandal prince and king-to-be Geiserich, was obviously hateful of Roman lifestyle..  
 
 
And you are obviously unbiased towards what you call "Roman lifestyle", which you obviously know perfectly ...
 
 
 
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Posts: 1914 		  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2006 at 12:04
Originally posted by Jeru

 
"He considered his new life among the Scythians better than his old life among the Romans, and the reasons he gave were as follows: "After war the Scythians live in inactivity, enjoying what they have got, and not at all, or very little, harassed. The Romans, on the other hand, are in the first place very liable to perish in war, as they have to rest their hopes of safety on others, and are not allowed, on account of their tyrants to use arms.
 
It is also known that Attila was accusing his brother Bleda-the Great Khan of Huns before him whom was thrown off the throne by Attila himself- of living in a too "Roman" way and forgetting his roots..
 
Attila, who passed his childhood in Rome, sometimes being together with Vandal prince and king-to-be Geiserich, was obviously hateful of Roman lifestyle..  
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli
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Posts: 1914 		  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2006 at 12:00
Originally posted by Raider

Attila, the Hun plastic action figure
You can order via internet
 
LOL...But they were more forming the cavalry sections of their huge armies...The infantry mainly was of Germannic tribes.Gepids, Ostrogoths, Skirs etc..
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 13:12
the nomds had a few farmer societies well not realy sociieties more like a few farms a own and an Iron worker mostly to support the ironworks oh yeah also minners round the altai region I think
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Posts: 384 		  Quote Tar Szernd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 02:59
Hi!
 
The huns didn't have any(or just a few) agrikulure, or large silk factories (for exemple). So they had to move to te sattled countryes to trade with them for this products in the big border cityes. (or by the wall in China)
 
And the nomad heads tried to squeez out better trade conditions with the persians, greeks (f. e. in Sirmium/Bulgary/ for nomadian goods(leathers, horses etc.) with their army. And by any resist they cuold have those things of course cheaper:-) with weapons.
In Europe the huns needed mostly gold for their horses.
 
  TSZ
 
 
 
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Posts: 0 		  Quote monechee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2006 at 04:51
Originally posted by Scytho-Sarmatian

It is well documented that the Huns repeatedly trounced Sassanid Persia and even took over a chunk of northwestern India.  Sources?  Just about any book on the time period.  The Huns pretty much overran most of Eurasia in the early centuries A.D.  Historians don't give them too much credit for it because unlike the Mongols, Hun "conquests" were generally little more than bandit raids.  The Huns lacked organization and were not good at establishing lasting states.

 
thats true, northwestern india was radied many times and city like delhi was destroyed a lot of times.
 
As for the hungrians , even if they were from mongolia or turkis origin does not matter, thousand years of mixing with the european makes them european.
even in one generation you can see the difference of mixed marriage, you can see a Chinese-white caucasian mixed person and see how difficult it is to trace roots.
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Posts: 1042 		  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 00:56
Seko, it was also wellknown that he may have been poisoned. Just a side note. But i do believe that the drinking killed him.
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Posts: 8595 		  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 16:51
A similar quote is in the book I read. The author admits that many of Priscus' quotes are translated by R.C. Blockley in 1981-83.
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Posts: 57 		  Quote Jeru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 16:14
I've only read a bit about his interview with Onegesius and this is what made me intersted:
 
"He considered his new life among the Scythians better than his old life among the Romans, and the reasons he gave were as follows: "After war the Scythians live in inactivity, enjoying what they have got, and not at all, or very little, harassed. The Romans, on the other hand, are in the first place very liable to perish in war, as they have to rest their hopes of safety on others, and are not allowed, on account of their tyrants to use arms. And those who use them are injured by the cowardice of their generals, who cannot support the conduct of war. But the condition of the subjects in time of peace is far more grievous than the evils of war, for the exaction of the taxes is very severe, and unprincipled men inflict injuries on others, because the laws are practically not valid against all classes. A transgressor who belongs to the wealthy classes is not punished for his injustice, while a poor man, who does not understand business, undergoes the legal penalty, that is if he does not depart this life before the trial, so long is the course of lawsuits protracted, and so much money is expended on them. The climax of the misery is to have to pay in order to obtain justice. For no one will give a court to the injured man unless he pay a sum of money to the judge and the judge's clerks."
 
Translation by J.Bury.
 
Priscus writings seem very objective.
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Posts: 8595 		  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 15:53
Priscus accompanied Maximinus, Vigilas, and Byzantine assistants; Edika, Orestes (Hun representatives) and more assistants. That mission of a peace offer to Byzantium was the one that returned to Attila with a hatched plot. Priscus was not privy to the plot. That is why I called Priscus an ambassador earlier in the first post. Though his writings are the key here.

The book is by John Man, not J. Bury.
    

Edited by Seko - 31-Aug-2006 at 15:55
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Posts: 198 		  Quote Achilles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 15:23
Raygun, If i remeber correctly Attila and Bleda infact did launch a campaign against Persia/Parthia but were defeated and so turned back
Der Erste hat den Tod,
Der Zweite hat die Not,
Der Dritte erst hat Brot.

Fur immer frei und ungeteilt
-always free and undivided-

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Posts: 57 		  Quote Jeru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 15:18
Originally posted by Seko

The Byzantine ambassador Priscus is one of them. He met Attila...I'll continue to post more after I finish reading the book. p.s. -excuse my spelling mistakes since I don't have the patience right now to fix 'em. lol!    
Priscus was not an ambassador,he was a Greek sophist and historian that accompanied Maximin the ambassador of Theodosius II to a meeting with Attila in 448.Is the book you read the translation of J.Bury?I havent read it yet,if someone could please recommend any book based on Attila i would be most gratefull.Thanks in advance.
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Posts: 8595 		  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 14:29
Attila's accounts continued.

Priscus was a scholar and writer who wrote volumns on the Byzantine History. He also met Attila in person.

He described Attila as being an ambitious, moody, ruthless yet guile leader. Who was generous in friendship and terrifying in opposition.

He narrated a famous story about the events of an attempted assasination on Attila by the byzantine court.   

Later the book (mentioned in my previous post) goes into detail on the battle at the Catalaunian Plains. Attila's return to the land of modern day Hungary and an attempt to storm Rome. That seige failed due to good bargaining power of Pope Leo I. Attila died in his sleep after his wedding night. A hemmorage known as 'oesophageal varices' can occur from years of drinking alcohol. The author of the book hints that Attila's swollen veins burst without warning and produced a rush of blood into his lungs while asleep.


    
    

Edited by Seko - 31-Aug-2006 at 14:30
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Posts: 416 		  Quote Socrates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2006 at 20:02
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim


Correct me if I'm wrong, but Slavs, are also from central asia and don't look particularly mongoloid.

 
If nobody else corrected you, I will.Slavs didn't come from central Asia.They've been native to Europe as long as germanics, celts, greeks, etc.
 
It's remarkable how nazi propaganda lives on...''mongoloid'' slavs and ''nordic'' germanics...LOL
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