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The Role of Russia in the 21st century

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  Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Role of Russia in the 21st century
    Posted: 30-May-2006 at 00:32
With the Eu investing more and more in military technology, the US still maintaing, and in some aspects increasing military expenditures, and the China rising up as a global power...

what's russia's future role? Will they rebuild thier military to what it was in the past as their economy strengthens? Will they remain on thier own, or will they side more with China or the West?

Personally, I think they'll re-emerge as a global power as they were in the past and be more fo a lone fox per se......not really allying strongly with anyone.

Russia's made a habit of reminding the US that it's still a power. During the Kosovo action, Russian subs trailed US carriers off of the Coast of Washington jsut to remind the US that they are still there.


Edited by Illuminati - 30-May-2006 at 00:34
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  Quote Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 01:02
Unfortunately, Russia is really a mess at this time. Their government is not exactly a model to follow, the economy is in shambles, and the military is a pale shadow to what it once was. I mean look at what happened to them in Chechnya.

Of course, the main problem is their economy. In terms of natural resources, Russia might be one of the world's most gifted nations. Unfortunately, most of those resources are trapped under the Siberian tundra. If they had the ability to get those resources out of there, Russia might be substantially wealthier.

Russia could emerge as a superpower once more but it won't be anytime soon if ever.
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  Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 01:11
I think russia is doing okay in Chechnya. remember, tehy want to bring Chechnya back into russia. That's different than being at war for survival. If Russia was at war with Chechnya out of defense, Chechnya would be a smoldering ruin. Even the US has problems in Afghanistan and Iraq. No matter the military, fighting an insurgent war is not easy to do if you aren't willing to jsut level the whole place. When it comes to fighting a total war....don't judge a military by their ability to deal with insurgents.

The Russian military is starting to re-build. They are do to get some of new equipment  this year. i'll try and find the article about it.

Thier governmental model of Russia isn't to my personal likeing. But a more authoritarian leader like Putin, has a better chance at being able to build the military up. regardless, Russia's strategic worl position coupled with the rise of China is enough to force any form of government to build up the military.

The Russian economy as you stated, is quite weak as of now. that's the only thing holding them back. I couldn't even estimate a time-frame on how long until they get out fo their economic slump thought



Edited by Illuminati - 30-May-2006 at 01:12
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  Quote Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 01:34
Chechnya isn't exactly a big countryand the Russians are have been fighting there since 1994. The fact that fighting continues to the present day shows how futile their efforts are. Even as far back as 1980 when the Soviets were actually fighting a true war in Afghanistan, they were having trouble. They're worse off now, with the deterioration of the Russian army because of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Most of their best scientists and engineers already live elsewhere and their technology is slowly becoming obsolete. 
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  Quote Russian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 19:07



Originally posted by Illuminati


With the Eu investing more and more in military technology, the US still maintaing, and in some aspects increasing military expenditures, and the China rising up as a global power...what's russia's future role? Will they rebuild thier military to what it was in the past as their economy strengthens? Will they remain on thier own, or will they side more with China or the West?Personally, I think they'll re-emerge as a global power as they were in the past and be more fo a lone fox per se......not really allying strongly with anyone.Russia's made a habit of reminding the US that it's still a power. During the Kosovo action, Russian subs trailed US carriers off of the Coast of Washington jsut to remind the US that they are still there.

    

Answer to Belisarius: Unfortunately, small amount of people in the west have a CLUE of what is Russia now, it is no longer a mess.


Ok, to Illuminati, Russia will most likely side itself with China, however, west is a possibility.

Despite this, Russia is maintaining it's power, and increasing: New shuttle built, Europe is ordering russian rockets for space travel, Russian artillery shells, russian MLRS systems, we have yet to see the new tank T-95, military is definitely on the huge rise, S-400 are accepted, many other researches are on the way, 400 new military items are to be accepted in 2006, more in 2007, equipment is among the best, cooperation is on the way with many asian and european countries, US, especially in space travel and energy production, heard of new Tokamak, well, not new, but Tokamak? a VERY interesting way of pruducing energy.

However, there are also problems, mainly in command and with troops, technlogy is among the best countries, along with US, but troops are not that good, corruption in goverment, inflation, and so on, but it seems as Putin found a way to tackle inflation, he pours money in to military.

Russia will bocome one of the main energy supplier before we all switch to something else, we might switch to TOKAMAKs by the way.

Russia's economy is on a fast rise, and Putin, who is a great leader, is pouring money in to social services and military, both research and reequiping army.

Russian people LOVE Putin, he is a good president. On his first day as a president, on 1 January, when everyboyd generally celebrate with Shampaign and everything, guess where he was? In Chechnya, meeting new year with troops on the front lines near Grozny, handing medals and awards, and presents.

Concerning politics, Putin said: "We will never return to times of Cold war, we will steadily, slowly build relations with West based on our common interests".

He also did a little remark about US, he said:

Ok, if you want to find out more about Russia, see some quotes from Putin, some reports concerning new technology and military, as well as social stuff, foreign politics, here is a good site, if you want to know what is happening in Russia, just go there:

http://en.rian.ru/

the developers of things like Topol M are posting stuff on this site.

Russia will be democratic, Putin said it, that's the final regime, most stable, and it will not be millitaristic, Defence Minister said it himself, he said we will not do this mistake twice, he said Russia is capable of finding solutions to expensive proiblems with cheap desicions.

Completely agree with Illuminati, insurgents are a big stoppage for a big country, like Russia, USSR, USA, the armies are not suited for this in general.

Then again, USA, like Britain was, is a great Naval superpower, while USSR was continental superpower, well, it was inherited by Russia, who is not that powerful as USSR was, but still quite powerful.

There are two countries that are likely to be competing for world economics, military, some other stuff, and cooperating together as well, and not letting anyone to come to their level, these two countries are Russia and USA, judge for yourself, who has 97% of world's weapons of mass destruction, and who "ACTIVELY" tries to limit them? US and Russia are "trying", but in reality they understand that it is favourable for them only to be up there and deal with everything by themselves, not involving anyone else, they of course want to keep weapons of mass destruction situation at the level at which it is now.
    

Edited by Russian - 30-May-2006 at 19:15
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  Quote Russian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 19:22


Originally posted by Belisarius

Unfortunately, Russia is really a mess at this time. Their government
is not exactly a model to follow, the economy is in shambles, and the
military is a pale shadow to what it once was. I mean look at what
happened to them in Chechnya.

Of course, the main problem is their economy. In terms of natural
resources, Russia might be one of the world's most gifted nations.
Unfortunately, most of those resources are trapped under the Siberian
tundra. If they had the ability to get those resources out of there,
Russia might be substantially wealthier.

Russia could emerge as a superpower once more but it won't be anytime soon if ever.


    

Russia was superpower twice, remember 1700s, Katherine the Great, the saying was, in St. Peterburg Tsar sneezes, Europe caughs.

Your info is quite outdated Belisarius, Russia is getting resources from Siberia, especialy gas, military receives new equipment, economy rises, people start living better, but of course there are problems, but they are not as much or as serious as you stated. Chechnya is getting better, Chechenization of war almost over, Chechens are fighting with Chechen rebels, not Russia, well, Chechens are russians as well. And rebels are in the mountains, and the organized command over them has been destroyed, that's by the way the most recent news from Chechnya, you can read about it on hte site I posted, Ria Novosti, I highly reccomend it.

Russia definitely posesses resources to become a world power, but there are problems, the problem of demographics, russian population is reducing, and Putin tackles the problem, and I think successfully, also, the problem of leader. However, in this case, it might not be a problem, I would vote for Sergey Ivanov, Defence minister, he and the otehr guy, I do not remember how are the main candidates. When I asked my dad, who is gonna be the next president, he said: "On who will Putin point his finger." And Putin will do it, when he will be coming away from the presidency, he said it. This is what I call the Problem of new leader. 70% of people would vote for Putin's third term if he would try to run for president, but he doesn't want to.

Edited by Russian - 30-May-2006 at 19:26
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  Quote Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 20:20
If my information is outdated, I'm sorry. In my defense, it is a little difficult to keep track of the development of every country in the world. If Russia is on an upward climb while maintaining democracy, I'm glad to hear it.

However, am I correct in saying that corruption in the government is still rampant? What is Putin doing about this problem?
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  Quote Russian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 21:58

Originally posted by Belisarius

If my information is outdated, I'm sorry. In my defense, it is a little
difficult to keep track of the development of every country in the
world. If Russia is on an upward climb while maintaining democracy, I'm
glad to hear it.

However, am I correct in saying that corruption in the government is still rampant? What is Putin doing about this problem?



it is ok, don't worry, however, Russia is not really maintaiing democracy while climbing, as many accuse it.
    
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2006 at 00:28
I think the problem with Westerners assessing Russia is that they are always inclined to be biased thanks to half a century of Cold War propaganda. Westerners WANT to believe that Russia is corrupt and weak, Westerners are TAUGHT to believe so. This is what makes it difficult for them to assess Russia and they often underestimate her.

Let's look at her economy to begin with. We have all heard the horror stories about how Russia is going down the toilet. Yet the last financial report I read about Russia, their economy was growing at a rate of 7.7% for that financial quarter. For those not familiar with economics, as a commerce student I can tell you that is bloody excellant. We are talking about a nation which is well above places like China and India in infrastructure, yet investment is still making such massive returns.

Also on the Russian economy, they DO have a very good pool of qualified professionals to draw upon, unlike China and India. A big problem with this is that some of them leave for overseas, however, the country still is home to a strong force of technicians and professionals. Combine this with a strategically useful position and the abundance of natural resources already mentioned and it is well worth noting. A declining population may not be a good thing, but in the modern world a large population is no longer required to be a powerful or important country. Australia has only 20 million people, yet the 10th largest military budget in the world, for example.

It is tempting to see Russia as a nation regressing into her despotic past, but I see Putin and his strategy differently. I think he realised Russia was a country which needed stability and strong government to usher in democracy, the lack of these things is why she had so many difficulties in the early 90s. I think Putin is taking a firmer hold of the country in order to get it back onto a solid political footing, to counter balance the anarchic forces of the 1990s such as the Russian mafia and separatist groups.

At the moment I see Russia as quietly working her way out of a low point and I think she will play a much greater role militarily and politically in the future. I think it a little unfair to cite Chechnya as a demonstration of an inadequate military, fighting against a grass roots nation in arms and guerilla warfare is the greatest challenge for today's superpowers. The real test for a nation in fighting insurgents is how willing the home population of the large power is willing to continue supporting their troops to get the job done. In this respect, comparing Russia's military tenacity to that of some other countries who are fighting insurgents provides some interesting insights.
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2006 at 10:16
With Russia reasserting herself in areas that were formally parts of the Russian state, and particularly on her periphery, I don't see Russia aquiescing in a NATO Ukraine as is being discussed.  The old Warsaw Pact cordon that buffered Russia from Europe is gone now, and that alone makes them nervous.
 
Eventually Russia will reassert not only former imperial interests in independent states, but also her geostrategic interests as well.  Those have always been the same, for the Czar, for the Reds and for Russia now.
 
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2006 at 11:57
Aswell as the Tokomak, a scientist in Russia has also created a new form of Energy. Gets power from the Sun during the day and power from the stars during the night, stellar energy.
 
 


Edited by machine - 31-May-2006 at 12:03
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2006 at 12:26
Stars... I wonder how large is the extraction per cent... I might think of it below 1%. The stars aren't so radiant, I believe, especially for light.
 
But we have in our Army services a talk that Russia lacks oil for their fleets... interesting.
 
But, yes, Russia is a major gas exporter, there I must agree.
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  Quote Russian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2006 at 13:09

Originally posted by rider

Stars... I wonder how large is the extraction per cent... I might think of it below 1%. The stars aren't so radiant, I believe, especially for light.

But we have in our Army services a talk that Russia lacks oil for their fleets... interesting.


But, yes, Russia is a major gas exporter, there I must agree.

    

I would not believe these talks, Russia is also a major oil exporter, has among the biggest amounts of oil in a country, especially not developed sites.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2006 at 20:47

Yes but isnt Russian oil poor in quality.

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  Quote steven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 01:21
Well, Russia will not reassert it's role in the region any time soon, maybe in Central Asia and Belarus may join it, but it won't be able to counter the EU expansion. Russia has good natural resources but it needs to be able to turn these into an actual economy.
 
Last time I was there this past summer, visiting family, I think Moscow is slowly becoming a city that resembles something like a Western Europe...but it's just not there yet. The rest of th country is not much to speak of.
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  Quote Dampier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 10:11
Russias problem is dealing with its Oligarchs, getting the PBI better (Poor Bloody Infantry) and sorting out the corruption in certain areas. Putin is not democratic but his methods do seem to really be working. There are some interesting parallels with Russia post Cold War and Germany post Versailles.
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  Quote Russian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 16:14

Originally posted by Dampier

Russias problem is dealing with its Oligarchs, getting the PBI better (Poor Bloody Infantry) and sorting out the corruption in certain areas. Putin is not democratic but his methods do seem to really be working. There are some interesting parallels with Russia post Cold War and Germany post Versailles.



Oligarhcs work on Putin now, and this is really good news, the largest Steel producing company now is russian Severstal' combined with Arcelor, before Mordashev, who is a director, started talks with Arcelor, he asked Putin advice, should he do that or not, many oligarchs do that now, an Putin is really happy, and greets them for this, for helping rise the economy. Oficially, Mordashev and Putin were talking about steel tubes of big diameters, LOL, thats freaking laughable, everybody understand what they were talking about, but NO, they had to cover it up with this laughable thing, it seems funny for me, especially that President of RF would talk to someone about pipes of big diameters.

In Russia on average the amount of good or money for person or I don't know how you call it increased 4 times. You are right Dampier, Putin's methods work great, although West sometimes accuses it of not being democratic, well, West greeted Eltsin for being democratic, and he was so democratic and has given so much liberties that almost ruined the country

Sometimes I think that democracy is not that good, in terms of complete democracy, you have so many opponents who fight for power that they almost don't care about the country, pretty much the situation in Ukraine, where goverment can't stop working.

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  Quote the Bulgarian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2006 at 15:02
Democracy is a good thing, Russian. Smile It may not be that obvious in the beggining, but you'll like it in time. Russians are pretty unfamiliar with the ways of democracy following centuries of absolutism and decades of Communism. Most of the country's current problems stem from the Russians'...hmm... instinct, if you will, to be comanded. Democracy confuses and scares them, because they're not used to thinking for them selves. However, Russians are very bright people, they'll figure it out eventually.
 
I hope Russia gets back on its feet soon. The Russian people deserve to finally live like deceant, free, civilized people.
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  Quote Russian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2006 at 20:37

Originally posted by the Bulgarian

Democracy is agood thing, Russian. [IMG]height=17 alt=Smile src="http://www.allempires.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>It may not be that obvious in the beggining, but you'll like it in time. Russians are pretty unfamiliar with the ways of democracy following centuries of absolutism and decades of Communism. Most of the country's current problems stem from the Russians'...hmm... instinct, if you will, to be comanded. Democracy confuses and scaresthem, because they're not used to thinking for them selves. However, Russians are very bright people, they'll figure it out eventually.

I hope Russia gets back on its feet soon. The Russian people deserve to finally live like deceant, free, civilized people.



Thank you.   


A little thing, it is not just that we like to be commanded, it is just that we like having a good leader, which Putin is.
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  Quote the Bulgarian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 07:33
Originally posted by Russian


Originally posted by the Bulgarian

Democracy is a good thing, Russian. [IMG]height=17 alt=Smile src="http://www.allempires.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> It may not be that obvious in the beggining, but you'll like it in time. Russians are pretty unfamiliar with the ways of democracy following centuries of absolutism and decades of Communism. Most of the country's current problems stem from the Russians'...hmm... instinct, if you will, to be comanded. Democracy confuses and scares them, because they're not used to thinking for them selves. However, Russians are very bright people, they'll figure it out eventually.
 

I hope Russia gets back on its feet soon. The Russian people deserve to finally live like deceant, free, civilized people.



Thank you.   
 
За ничто, дружок.Smile
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