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Topic ClosedFall of Constantinople 29th May 1453

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fall of Constantinople 29th May 1453
    Posted: 29-May-2006 at 07:42
Today, it's the 553rd anniversary of the Fall of Constantinople,

the worst day of Hellenism. The defeat of Hellenism and Christianity by the Turks and Islam. The greek nation mourns every year this day, when Constantinople fell.

 

This city was built in 657 BC by Greeks from Megara (a city near Athens) and it was given the name Byzantion by Byzas who was the leader of them.

 

The capital of the Eastern Roman Empire, the city that was identified with the life of Byzantine empire, was founded by Constantine the Great, in the place where was the city of  Byzantion. The city was founded on 8 November 324 and it was inaugurated on 11 May 330. The capital was named Nea Romi (New Rome) and later was renamed Konstantinoupolis (Constantinople) which means Constantines City.

 

After the fall in 1453, the Turks changed its name. Now the city is universally known as Istanbul which is greek too and comes from the phrase Is tin Polin which means to the City, as people called it Polis.

"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians.That's who we are!We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia�Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century" Kiro Gligorov FYROM
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2006 at 10:54
The Turkish sultan, Mehmed II, advanced on Constantinople on the beginning of 1453. Troops came from every region of the Empire, including thousands of irregulars, from many nationalities, who were attracted by the prospect of looting. His army included finally 200000 soldiers (29000 of them were Europeans). Constantinople was defended only from 10000 soldiers (3000 of them were Europeans mostly Italians).
 
One most remakble think was the half moon sign.The sultan show in front of many houses the symbol of half moon. He asked why was this symbol everywhere, and they told him that this symbol was dated from the time of 340 b.c. when Philipos Macedonian did not manage to take Byzantium. Ancient Byzantines has since that victory, preserved this symbol.The half moon was a sign that dedicated in Dimitra, an ancient Olympian God.The founders of the Byzantium City were the Megarians as Dorian mention and  had as main worship God  the Dimirtra.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2006 at 10:55
The end of the Byzantine Empire, which was nothing by the time Constantinople fell, and the beginning of the Ottoman Empire, which was everything the Byzantine had once been.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2006 at 11:52

If this post is deemed too irrelevant to the issue, please feel free to delete it.

Do you all feel that the Church--the Orthodox, and specifically the Ecumenical Patriarch--is more or less able to present Christianity authentically and live according to Christian principles since it lost the backing of a secular entity?
 
-Akolouthos
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2006 at 11:57
Originally posted by Akolouthos

If this post is deemed too irrelevant to the issue, please feel free to delete it.

Do you all feel that the Church--the Orthodox, and specifically the Ecumenical Patriarch--is more or less able to present Christianity authentically and live according to Christian principles since it lost the backing of a secular entity?
 
-Akolouthos


I don't think there is any single church which satisfactorily caters for and is representative of every form of Christian belief, if there were there would only be a single church.

What do you mean by losing the backing of a secular entity? Do you mean, the Orthodox church had the backing of the Byzantine government to the very end of the Byzantine Empire, to the extent that the government was extinguished and the church lived on? If anything, that would then make it more receptive to the needs of its flock as it is not constrained as it once was by the control of the Emperor.


Edited by Constantine XI - 29-May-2006 at 11:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2006 at 12:04
That is what I had in mind when I said "the backing of a secular entity". I think I agree with you in part. The Church is definitely not pressured by those from within in the same way it was (Florence, Lateran IV, etc.). Still, with the fall of Constantinople, the Patriarch took on an increasingly ethnarchic role, which spawned much of the ethnophiletism that is now plaguing the church. Leaving out recent events, which would only inflame debate, I guess my question would be "Which form of pressure was less harmful to the integrity of the Church?"
 
-Akolouthos
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2006 at 16:51
 I usually don't have much sympathy for any kings or sultans since they are tyrants in the end but Mehmed II is special. Thanks to him that today I can drink my raki by the BosphorusSmile
 
EDIT: See my signWink


Edited by kotumeyil - 29-May-2006 at 16:52
[IMG]http://www.maksimum.com/yemeicme/images/haber/raki.jpg">
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2006 at 17:03
and the beginning of the Ottoman Empire, which was everything the Byzantine had once been.
 
In terms of territory yes,but not in terms of culture.
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2006 at 17:44
did i posted too much?

Anyway i wanted to share those a long time ago, but forgot to share. I thought now its the time for it and shared with y'all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2006 at 17:55
Originally posted by DayI

did i posted too much?

Anyway i wanted to share those a long time ago, but forgot to share. I thought now its the time for it and shared with y'all.
 
 
Yes, you did, very difficult to read, but nice pictures, and mentioning your sources would have been nice as well.
Anyway, I moved your posts to a new thread here:
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 06:16

I found some interesting stuff about the omens of the Fall and I post it here..

Portents of Disaster

The people of the Middle Ages held the belief that the physical world, particularly the stars, locations of the planets, and other astronomical occurrences, had a strong influence on their daily lives. In April and May, the city had faced unseasonable weather including heavy rains and hailstorms. Although these signs did not bode well, the defenders held firm and concluded that the city would fall only when the moon gave a sign. On May 22nd, the moon did just that by phasing into a long and dark eclipse. One can only imagine the overwhelming sense of dread Constantinople's defenders must have felt as the moon turned a deep crimson color with a slim crescent -- the image of the Turkish standard flying over Mohammed's camp. Conversely, the Turkish army certainly would have viewed this as a sign of imminent victory and their morale must have increased dramatically.

However, the portents of disaster did not stop there.

On the 26th, a dense fog rose over the besieged city. By nightfall, the fog lifted and the defenders were horrified to see the windows and rooftops of the city flickering with ominous shades of red. Even the enormous copper dome of the Hagia Sophia, the main cathedral of the city, appeared to be engulfed in flames. This final event certainly would have had a profound effect on the defenders of Constantinople, and Mohammed may have realized it -- for three days later, he began to incessantly pound the city with his cannons, threw his entire force into the fray, and had control of the city by the end of the day.

So what exactly happened at Constantinople in May of 1453? Some scientists claim that the strange phenomena were the result of volcanic activity in the Pacific (at Kuwae) earlier in the year. The volcanic particles which were spewed into the atmosphere contributed to the inclement weather, the unusually dark eclipse, and especially the red skies at twilight. It is probable that when Mohammed II witnessed these events, he used them as a way to rally his forces. Their several attempts to take the city had all been rebuffed and morale amongst the Turkish army must have been low. Mohammed could have very well pointed to each event claiming that they were all portents of victory. The timing of the final attack on Constantinople certainly lends credibility to this idea.



Edited by dorian - 30-May-2006 at 06:18
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 09:42
Originally posted by kotumeyil

 I usually don't have much sympathy for any kings or sultans since they are tyrants in the end but Mehmed II is special. Thanks to him that today I can drink my raki by the BosphorusSmile
 
EDIT: See my signWink
 
Cheers, kotumeyil! Smile


Edited by the Bulgarian - 30-May-2006 at 09:43
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 11:43
Cheers!Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 12:33
Originally posted by kotumeyil

 I usually don't have much sympathy for any kings or sultans since they are tyrants in the end but Mehmed II is special. Thanks to him that today I can drink my raki by the BosphorusSmile
 
EDIT: See my signWink
Honestly i didnt expected such a cheap comment of you :)

Its like saying Edison isnt that speciall at all, thanks to him i can see at dark...
Well he is maybe "tyrant" to you, but a hero for millions...




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 13:10
Originally posted by DayI

Originally posted by kotumeyil

 I usually don't have much sympathy for any kings or sultans since they are tyrants in the end but Mehmed II is special. Thanks to him that today I can drink my raki by the BosphorusSmile
 
EDIT: See my signWink
Honestly i didnt expected such a cheap comment of you :)

Its like saying Edison isnt that speciall at all, thanks to him i can see at dark...
Well he is maybe "tyrant" to you, but a hero for millions...



A hero?
Superman is a hero-He beats up the bad guys and saves the day.
He doesn't kill thousands and destroys cities!

(PS1:well,ok in some episodes maybe)
(PS2:Anyway,i prefere Batman of course)Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 13:45
Originally posted by DayI

Originally posted by kotumeyil

 I usually don't have much sympathy for any kings or sultans since they are tyrants in the end but Mehmed II is special. Thanks to him that today I can drink my raki by the BosphorusSmile
 
EDIT: See my signWink
Honestly i didnt expected such a cheap comment of you :)

Its like saying Edison isnt that speciall at all, thanks to him i can see at dark...
Well he is maybe "tyrant" to you, but a hero for millions...




 
Cheap or not, I'm really thankfulTongue He's a very good sultan but the equivalent of Edison in the Ottoman Empire is the famous inventor Hezarfen Ahmet Chelebi, who flew across the Bosphorus in the 17th Century and he is a real hero of mineSmile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 13:54
Originally posted by Digenis

Originally posted by DayI

Originally posted by kotumeyil

 I usually don't have much sympathy for any kings or sultans since they are tyrants in the end but Mehmed II is special. Thanks to him that today I can drink my raki by the BosphorusSmile
 
EDIT: See my signWink
Honestly i didnt expected such a cheap comment of you :)

Its like saying Edison isnt that speciall at all, thanks to him i can see at dark...
Well he is maybe "tyrant" to you, but a hero for millions...



A hero?
Superman is a hero-He beats up the bad guys and saves the day.
He doesn't kill thousands and destroys cities!

(PS1:well,ok in some episodes maybe)
(PS2:Anyway,i prefere Batman of course)Big smile
dude siriously wich city he destroyed who are found by archeleologist "xx" years later?

Your confusing alexander with him i think, remember Mehmed didnt entered Persepolis, it whas alexander self...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 14:43
Alexander destroyed one city,and built one hundred others.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 15:44
1.Which city? -Constantinoupolis.

2.As for Alexander:
cities destroyed:   0 (the palace of Persepolis burnt)
cities built: 1.Alexandroupolis (near strymon river)
                  2.Alexandria Troas
                  3.Alexandria by the Latmus
                  4.Alexandria near Issus
                  5.-6.Tyros+Gaza rebuilt and repopulation
                  7.Alexandria in Egypt
                  8.Alexandria in Aria  (Herat- Afghanistan)
                  9.Alexandria in Dragiana (Farah-Afg.)
                 10.Alexandria in Arahosia (Kandahar-Afg.)
                 11.Alexandria in the Caucasus (Charicar-Afg.)
                 12.Alexandria Eschate (Khodzent-Tajikistan)
                 13.Alexandria on the Oxus (Termez?)
                 14.Alexandria in Margiana
                 15.Arigaeum (Nawagai-Pakistan)
                 16.Nicea-Bucephala
                 17.Alexandria on Hyphasis river
                 18.Alexandria on the Indus river(Uch-Pakistan)
                 19.another town on the Indus
                 20.Patala-Xylinepolis (Bahmanabad-Pak.)
                 21.Rhambakia (Bela-Pakistan)
                 22.Alexandria in Carmania
                 23."Six cities north of the Oxus river"
                 24.Alexandria Susiana
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 15:48
how did he sustain that much cities with people? Not arguing but curious about it.
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