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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Popular Falsities in History
    Posted: 01-Feb-2007 at 19:07

Dumbledore dies!LOL

I love this quote. I saw a video clip of Harry Potter fans lined up for the latest Harry Potter book, and one teenager opened the window of the car that was driving to somewhereelse, clutching the book... and cried out "Dumbledore dies!" And the fans were going chaos, some screaming "No!!!!"
 
I know this is not related, but it was quite entertaining...LOL
     
   
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Posts: 131 		  Quote chimera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 16:44
Yes, fiction is truth to some. Such as "the USA champions democracy and human rights".  It only entered WW1 when Lusitania was sunk. It only entered WW2 at Pearl Harbour.  It destroyed democratic Chile of Pres. Allende, and supports South American dictators.  It did something for South Vietnam's military dictators to show the Soviets that the US wanted a fight after Cuba.  Foreign citizens are held in medieval-type dungeons without trial for years in Guantanamo (in Cuba, yes!). The US fights, but its for US$, not human rights.
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2007 at 16:56
Originally posted by chimera

Yes, fiction is truth to some. Such as "the USA champions democracy and human rights".  It only entered WW1 when Lusitania was sunk. It only entered WW2 at Pearl Harbour.  It destroyed democratic Chile of Pres. Allende, and supports South American dictators.  It did something for South Vietnam's military dictators to show the Soviets that the US wanted a fight after Cuba.  Foreign citizens are held in medieval-type dungeons without trial for years in Guantanamo (in Cuba, yes!). The US fights, but its for US$, not human rights.
chimera.
 
Thanks for mentioning that. Winners make the history. When wartime comes, no sides are really evil. We all have our dirty secrets. Nazi Germany is labelled evil because they lost the war.
     
   
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2007 at 19:40
Is the U.S. winning?
 
Or is just getting poorer day by day, wasting resources in avoidable wars when the real potential enemies, both economical and military, get stronger day by day?
 
Just  question.
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2007 at 21:05
Originally posted by pinguin

Is the U.S. winning?
 
Or is just getting poorer day by day, wasting resources in avoidable wars when the real potential enemies, both economical and military, get stronger day by day?
 
Just  question.
 
I think the standard of living in United States is weakening... but I think US military is getting stronger, as well as some industries. Yes, many Americans are dying... but as cruel as it sounds, they are expandable. Due to more conflicts, the war factories are booming... the politicans can easily allow the Americans to focus on war and justify other problems by saying winning the war is priority. The American government is squeezing the money out of the American commoners.
 
With huge demand for war supplies, the American war factories could test newer weapons and mass produce more efficient wars. Furthermore, the Americans are slowly adopting to gurilla warfare tactic used by Middle Eastern resistance. They could use this experience to handle more efficient military operations in Third World countries... like how Dieppe was used for practice in D-Day.
 
America is also getting the right to get the Iraq's oil, as well as replacing the Iraqi industeries with Americans'.
 
 
But overall, I am not so sure either. All of these are simple guesswork.
     
   
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JESUS WAS BLACK THATS THE MOST UNBELIVIBLE THING I HEARD IN MY LIFE.
MASONRY WELCOMES EVERYBODY
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2007 at 21:51
Originally posted by MASON1

JESUS WAS BLACK THATS THE MOST UNBELIVIBLE THING I HEARD IN MY LIFE.
 
Um... that's something I never heard... but I wouldn't really agree with that as well. Who came up with that?
     
   
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Posts: 131 		  Quote chimera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2007 at 05:18
Well, not blue-eyed European. He was Semitic, and the Law taught that Gentiles (including all Europe) were religiously unclean and were to be avoided where possible. So Peter had to be told that in fact Euros are OK and can even be invited for a meal after a good wash.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2007 at 19:39

The most unbelievable thing I have hear is the following:

Spaniards were crueler that the British in the Americas.

Common LOL

Everybody knows the British invented GENOCIDE. They started it with the genocide of the American Indians in the United States!
 
Hitler only copied the British.
 
Yes, Hitler should have received a medal from the Queen of England for copying the British Colonialist Method.
 
Sorry. But I have to say it.
 
Pinguin
 


Edited by pinguin - 05-Feb-2007 at 19:40
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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2007 at 19:54

JESUS WAS BLACK THATS THE MOST UNBELIVIBLE THING I HEARD IN MY LIFE.

Depends how you define white. According to apartide and the white Australia policy, Palestinians are white, which would make Jesus more likely to be "white". However if by white you mean those pictures they have of him, he was almost certainly not like that.
He is much more likely to have an ethiopian grandmother than a german one.
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2007 at 21:13
Originally posted by pinguin

The most unbelievable thing I have hear is the following:

Spaniards were crueler that the British in the Americas.

Common LOL

Everybody knows the British invented GENOCIDE. They started it with the genocide of the American Indians in the United States!
 
Hitler only copied the British.
 
Yes, Hitler should have received a medal from the Queen of England for copying the British Colonialist Method.
 
Sorry. But I have to say it.
 
Pinguin
 
 
No, I don't think Hitler should get a medal from the Queen of England.
 
Genocide has been a well-known method even before British Empire colonzied Europe. There were loads of civilizations that advocated genocide. No nation really invented it. It's the selfishness and hatred of mankind's corrupted heart that created genocide.
     
   
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 03:58
 
Originally posted by pinguin

The most unbelievable thing I have hear is the following:

Spaniards were crueler that the British in the Americas.

Common LOL

Everybody knows the British invented GENOCIDE. They started it with the genocide of the American Indians in the United States!
 
How much of a tangled mess can you create!
 
You can't hold the British responsible for what happened in the United States. In the colonial period south of the Canadian border, and throughout north of it, British relations with the native peoples were much better than below the border after the US was founded.
 
In fact one of the reasons for the colonists wanting independence was the restriction placed on taking Indian land by the British.
 
(I should mention that the French record in Canada and 'Louisiana' was also better than the American.)
 
 
Hitler only copied the British.
 
Yes, Hitler should have received a medal from the Queen of England for copying the British Colonialist Method.
 
Sorry. But I have to say it.
 
You can say it, but you have to be able to back it up with more than just an assertion. And confusing 'the British' with 'the United States' isn't a very convincing start.
 
Pinguin
 


Edited by gcle2003 - 06-Feb-2007 at 03:58
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Posts: 3224 		  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 04:05
Many people claim that Hannibal was black. I have great doubts in the credibility of this claim, especially considering that none of his portraits or paintings of him depict him as being dark-skinned. He, in my opinion, was most probably the skin colour of Modern-Day North Africans like Moroccans or Egyptians, possibly a bit lighter skinned. Does anyone want to back up this claim? Or am I right in saying that it is false?

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Posts: 131 		  Quote chimera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 07:45
The US colonies were British and that culture persisted after 1776.  OK the US is legally different, but that population went on to apply genocide across a whole continent, just as in British Australia.
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Posts: 316 		  Quote Jagiello Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2007 at 17:38
Originally posted by pekau

Originally posted by chimera

Yes, fiction is truth to some. Such as "the USA champions democracy and human rights".  It only entered WW1 when Lusitania was sunk. It only entered WW2 at Pearl Harbour.  It destroyed democratic Chile of Pres. Allende, and supports South American dictators.  It did something for South Vietnam's military dictators to show the Soviets that the US wanted a fight after Cuba.  Foreign citizens are held in medieval-type dungeons without trial for years in Guantanamo (in Cuba, yes!). The US fights, but its for US$, not human rights.
chimera.
 
Thanks for mentioning that. Winners make the history. When wartime comes, no sides are really evil. We all have our dirty secrets. Nazi Germany is labelled evil because they lost the war.
 
 
I've hear and read this thing about the good nazi,and the bad americans.Yes,history is written by the victorious,but in the case of the nazi they really were as bad as all say.You can't deny the existance of Auschwitz or the millions of murdered people,only because they were not german.In this case there IS an evil side!
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Posts: 316 		  Quote Jagiello Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2007 at 17:41
And the biggest propaganda and falsitie in nowadays is the existance of Macedonian nation.Macedonia is a country created by the comunist!Macedonian nation does not exist-they're all bulgarian.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2007 at 17:49
Dud you know that Cleopatra's grandfather was Greek?
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Posts: 131 		  Quote chimera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2007 at 23:02
"
You can't deny the existance of Auschwitz or the millions of murdered people,only because they were not german.In this case there IS an evil side!
IP IP Logged
Yes that is evil. But the US denies its own evil. In the Vietnam war, the policy was to drop napalm on Cambodian villages in the hope that some of the dead would be communists. Imagine if Muslims landed in New England and they repeat the US history of invading the Amerindian countries, and put US survivors in desolate reservations to die of malnutrition and  disease......evil!!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 08:48
Originally posted by gcle2003

 
Originally posted by pinguin

The most unbelievable thing I have hear is the following:

Spaniards were crueler that the British in the Americas...

 
How much of a tangled mess can you create!
 
You can't hold the British responsible for what happened in the United States. In the colonial period south of the Canadian border, and throughout north of it, British relations with the native peoples were much better than below the border after the US was founded.
 
In fact one of the reasons for the colonists wanting independence was the restriction placed on taking Indian land by the British.
 
(I should mention that the French record in Canada and 'Louisiana' was also better than the American.)
 
Yes, you are right that the British and French in North America were a lot better than the U.S. with the local Amerindians during the early independent times. But that was after Britain had already commited most of its crimes !!!!
 
However, if you take both British and French intervention in the Americas as a whole, not only in the North America, a dark picture appears.
 
French? Remember Haiti.
British? Remember the slave trade, the extermination of the Caribs.
 
The Caribbean has many places that were under British control. What they did sistematically was to kill all the natives and bring African slaves for the production of suggar and other agricultural products. Those plantations were real concentration camps were the Africans lived no more than four years before being replaced by a new shipment of Blacks. All the places that got under British control changed its demography dramatically, from Amerindian to African. Cuba itself, that was under British control during a decade, changed its demography in that period. With respect to Haiti, we should not forget that Napoleon had plans to exterminate the half million local population to replace it with a new massive imports of slaves from Africa.
 
Comparing those massive crimes with the relative mild encomienda regime impossed to Indians by Spaniards is really ridiculous. In the topic of slavery, we should remember that Spain was not a major trader of slaves at all, and that most of the ones imported to theirs territories were bought to the British, French and Portugueses.
 
The point I was defending is quite simple. The Spaniards were not the worst in colonizing the Americas. The academics in North America pretend to put all the hate as a monopoly of the Conquistadors, and that's false. They want people put all the guilt into the Spaniards, so theirs own ancestors get out of the picture. That's not correct.
 
Particularly when the Spaniards did many think to protect natives and also intermarry with them. Nowhere else but in the Spanish Empire you find Native descendents migrating to Spain with nobility titles!
 
That's the thing. I would advice anglo-american scholars to study the crimes of theirs own ancestors first, before judging others.
 
Pinguin
 
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 11-Feb-2007 at 08:53
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 09:28
Originally posted by pinguin

 
The point I was defending is quite simple. The Spaniards were not the worst in colonizing the Americas.
I don't disagree with that. The only thing I was objecting to was lumping on the British the misdeeds committed by the Americans. (I would include in that misdeeds committed by colonists pre-1776 against the wishes of the British government.
The academics in North America pretend to put all the hate as a monopoly of the Conquistadors, and that's false.
I don't believe that is true at all. Certainly British academics are fully prepared to (and do) recognise the bad things done under British rule. And from what I read, so are US academics.
They want people put all the guilt into the Spaniards, so theirs own ancestors get out of the picture. That's not correct.
 
Particularly when the Spaniards did many think to protect natives and also intermarry with them. Nowhere else but in the Spanish Empire you find Native descendents migrating to Spain with nobility titles!
 
That's the thing. I would advice anglo-american scholars to study the crimes of theirs own ancestors first, before judging others.
 
Pinguin
Again I object there to using 'Anglo-American' that way. The two countries are different, the two cultures are different, and each can take responsibility for its own acts.
 
And you should remember that, although Britain had profited from the Atlantic slave trade, it was also Britain that decided to put a stop to it, and deployed the Royal Navy to do so, even in the middle of the Napoleonic wars. (In fact later this year marks the 200th anniversary of the Act abolishing the trade. You might care to look at http://www.smallislandread.com/abolition.htm
for instance.)
 
Note too, that whatever the British record in the Caribbean, they never controlled more than a small part of it, and that only from fairly late on, well after the Caribs were already a vanishing population in the Spanish possessions.
 
To attempt to whitewash Spain would be as misguided an effort as whitewashing Britain or the US or any other colonists.


Edited by gcle2003 - 11-Feb-2007 at 09:31
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