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BEST ARTILLERY IN THE WORLD.
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Cezar View Drop Down
Chieftain
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Posts: 1211 		  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: BEST ARTILLERY IN THE WORLD.
    Posted: 30-May-2006 at 16:01
I like that mortar!!! Can I get someWink?
Artillery is useful as long as it does it's job. Whether is Smerch, Buratino, or the 105.
Artillery is not who decides what the theater is.


Edited by Cezar - 30-May-2006 at 16:02
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Pretorian
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Posts: 188 		  Quote Russian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 16:15
thanks, some cool pics, I liked the one in the middle, with desert coloring, lol, I think it is called Rhino, these might be pretty good, but what is their range, calibre?

I think russian equivalent would be this:

2S19 152-mm Self-Propelled Howitzer



But my personal favourite is the best MLRS on the planet, Smerch, range up to 90 km, 12 tubes 300 mm each.






This thing is just awesome, 203 mm self propelled, way better than M110, more range, bigger projectile, a friggin monster, Pion holds a record for range of fire among any self-propelled howitzer:






And this is legendary Katusha, made in 1939, was deployed in big numbers only by the end of war, this either one of the first rocekt propelled artillery systems, or the very first, german soldiers nicknamed it "Stalin Organs", because of it's sound, it was greatly feared by german soldiers, they said they were terrified to hear this thing every day, early in the morning



this is another awesome piece, TOS-1 Buratino, nicknamed by Nato "city destroyer" uses thermobaric explosives, it was used in Afghanistan and Chechnya very succesfully, against caves and other closed areas, thermobaric exmplosives consume all air in the area, well, first rocket explodes sending gas and fuel all around the closed area, then, it all ignites at the same time and firebal travels big distances, comes around corners and basically burns the hell out of everything alive in the area, also, if somebody is not burned, he or she will more likely be crushed by overpressure.



fires a ful volley in 7 seconds, it is ridiculous, 30 rockets in 7 seconds.


    

why you like mortars so much Cezar? they are not nearly as effective as rocket artillery or for example RPG, or RPO.

And here is also some history, famous Zveroboy, SU-152, nicknamed Zveroboy, which means beast killer, by russian soldiers and can opener by german soldiers. When it's 152 m shells were hitting tiger, in close engagement, it's turret was ripped clean off the tank. in Kursk battle, 12 Zveroboy's destroyed 12 Tigers and 7 elephants.






And I have a question for you guys, why use conventional artillery, like mortars and all this stuff, while you can use stuff like Smerch, Buratino, which is way more destructive?




Edited by Russian - 30-May-2006 at 17:45
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Posts: 1211 		  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 16:20
Hey, Russian, they look great, but what about us? Sometimes we don't need wipping out, we just want to get there. I know RU artillery is the best in the world but is it the best suitable support weapon?
 
*I'm just an infantry boy who think that I'm of some use.
 
**Mortars are great. Ever been on the receiving end of one?
 
***instead of "Buratino" could I have "Pinocchio"?


Edited by Cezar - 30-May-2006 at 16:24
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Posts: 188 		  Quote Russian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 17:46


Originally posted by Cezar

Hey, Russian, they look great, but what about us? Sometimes we don't need wipping out, we just want to get there. I know RU artillery is the best in the world but is it the best suitable support weapon?

*I'm just an infantry boy who think that I'm of some use.


**Mortars are great. Ever been on the receiving end of one?


***instead of "Buratino" could I have "Pinocchio"?


ok, let me first continue the post, then answer your question, ok? My other post was too big
     

ok, here is what I wanted to say about Krasnopol:

Here is Krasnopol, that, as some american articles state, forces us (americans), reconsider some of our tactics and ways of fighting.

Krasnopol (152/155mm) projectile is fired with standard propellant charges into a ballistic trajectory. At the peak, the nose cap is ejected, and the laser seeker begins to scan the ground for laser designated targets. Krasnopol munitions are stowed in two separate sections – control section and projectile. Both are connected before firing when it is prepared for a mission. The system is designed to enable multiple engagements of different rounds in a small area, using several designators, as well as salvo firing by different artillery pieces, engaging a single target, illuminated by a single laser designator.

The company is also offering a laser designator for the system, which is capable of targeting a large size object at a range of 20 km. A moving tank can be targeted at a range of 5 km, or 7 km, when it is stationary. The firing range of the Krasnopol weapon is 20km. Hit probability of these munitions range from 0.7 – 0.9, depending on the specific engagement conditions.

French are considering to buy Krasnopol, Veneusuella bought it I think, India aqcuired them allready, China also, countries are buying it.

Let us compare it to US Excalibur, Excalibur has a bit less accuracy, but it doesn't needs to be guided by laser, Krasnopol needs infantry support, it needs a soldier to guide a target for 5 seconds, then Krasnopol shoots and destroyes the target. Now the trick, one excalibur shell costs 40000 dollars!! compared to Krasnopol's 1000-2000 each, now make conclusions which is better, and Krasnopol has higher accuracy.

During tests in France the Bofors destroyed 5 targets with five 155mm shells equipped with Krasnopol guidance system (3 MOVING tanks, one APC and concrete wall) from 12km distance, with guiding personnel at 3km to the targets.

The comparison between Krasnopol and US Copperhead shells, by FAS:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/krasnopol.htm


as you can see, a lot of restrictions are placed on storage, handling and pre-shooting examining of copperhead, while none of these o Krasnopol.

here is examinasion's conclusion:

The potential low-cost proliferation of these rounds provides potential U.S. adversaries a capability to successfully attack and destroy targets ranging from thinly protected C4I systems to armored vehicles at a critical place and time on a future battlefield. Thus, these rounds can also become a force multiplier for small forces (guerrilla, terrorist, etc.) against a larger, technically advanced force in low intensity conflicts or military operations other than war.

After having Krasnopol, which you can fire from almost any 152/155 mm guns, whether towed, or self propelled, or flying, it seems to me that actual systems are not everything, it seems to me that shells are important, and as we can see, europeans buy Krasnopol for their 155 mm howitzers, which proves something.

By the way, can PZH 2000 shot on the move? does it have guided projectiles, like Krasnopol or Copperhead?

pics:

    

    


Well, ok, mortars are good, but let us say I have a choice, to be on receiving end of mortar, or Smerch or Buratino, I would definitely chose mortar.

Russian artilery is not that much of a supports weapon, it is main attack weapon, recall german general Otto Carius:

"Even the Americans, whom I would know very well on the Western Front later on, can not be compared with Russians. The Ivans fired on our positions with all kinds of artillery, from light mortars up to heavy howitzers. We were not able to come out from our shelters in order to check our Tigers. It is not strange that the Russians easily broke our front line after such heavy fire".

Of course you can have pinoccio, they are same characters, lol, .

I know what you mean Cezar, human life on battlefield worth nothing, it was different in for example middle ages, when the only thing that could kill you is another man with a bow, from whom you had shield as a protection, or another soldier with a sword, from whom you defended with a sword, and warrior's strength size, agility, brains all mattered, unfortunately, it all gradually diminished with the appearence of guns, artillery, tanks, assault rifles and so on.

Edited by Russian - 30-May-2006 at 18:25
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Posts: 1211 		  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 18:17

Now, this is it! I knew you had it but you must have concealed it because I was Romanian (just kidding, got something to do with another twist-mind-blurry-fake around here that says we hate RussiansConfused).

That Krasnopol thing is what I need. Four of them would come in handy. Also a Burattino for close back-up and a Smerch for ... just in case. Tell the tank boys we have it under control and just make them do their job.
 
*Cecenia (I spelled it in Romanian) is something quite different from the SU "invasion" of Afghanistan or the "freedom war" of the US in Iraq.
 
*btw, Vietnam wasn't also a "freedom war"?. Who is the real winner of that war (Korea sounds misplaced for this topic?)?
 
** NVA was using mostly SU made technolgy. What kind of artillery were they using and what was it's efficiency? (SAM's are irrelevant here, please)
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Posts: 188 		  Quote Russian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2006 at 18:33

Originally posted by Cezar

Now, this is it! I knew you had it but you must have concealed it because I was Romanian (just kidding, got something to do with another twist-mind-blurry-fake around here that says we hate Russians[IMG]height=17 alt=Confused src="http://www.allempires.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>).


That Krasnopol thing is what I need. Four of them would come in handy. Also a Burattino for close back-up and a Smerch for ... just in case. Tell the tank boys we have it under control and just make them do their job.


*Cecenia (I spelled it in Romanian) is something quite different from the SU "invasion" of Afghanistan or the "freedom war" of the US in Iraq.


*btw, Vietnam wasn't also a "freedom war"?. Who is the real winner of that war (Korea soundsmisplaced forthis topic?)?


** NVA was using mostly SU made technolgy. What kind of artillery were they using and what was it's efficiency? (SAM's are irrelevant here, please)

    

lol, Yeah, Vietnam was a mistake by USa, and they pooped themselves there, and before it, remember, One of their presidents said: We will nevr be an agressor, we will allways protect peace and liberty in this world, and like some time after that, they start a war on Vietnam, for PURELY political reasons, BOOM, there you go, freedom and peace.

I will try to find something more like Krasnopol for you, yeah, it is a good thing to have versus tanks of the enemy, that's why many countries buy it, for big distances, it is also top attack, which means it wouldn't matter how much tons of DU there is in front armor of a tank, plus, there is something for a infantry boy in Krasnopol, infantry has to guide it's shell, to shot laser for 5 seconds at a tank, well, I guess infantry's job is not that simple after all, and infantry works n close association with artillery and other branches.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2006 at 22:51
Modern US artillery (You must remeber that Russian figures are usually higher than the real numbers.  The US usually understates its figures.)
 
HIMARS
M102 105mm Lightweight Towed Howitzer
M198 Towed Howitzer
M777 Lightweight 155mm howitzer (LW155)M224 60mm Lightweight Company Mortar System (LWCMS)
M252 81mm Medium Extended Range Mortar
M120 120mm Mortar
 
As for shells.
 

The 155mm diameter projectiles offer a wide range of options for battlefield usage.

Bursting 155mm Projectiles
  • M104 - Delivers H or HD blister gas [not in active service, slated for destruction].
  • M107 - The Army's standard high explosive (HE) projectile used principally for fragmentation and blast effects.
  • M110A1/A2 - Delivers H or HD blister gas [not in active service, slated for destruction].
  • M116A1/B1 - Creates white chemical smoke for screening, spotting and signaling.
  • M121/A1 - GB or VX nerve gas [not in active service, slated for destruction]
  • M122 - GB nerve gas [not in active service, slated for destruction]
  • M549A1 RAP - Comprised of two components, a high explosive warhead and a rocket motor; the rocket motor ignites following discharge from the cannon and extends the effective range of the cannon.
  • M687 - Binary GB nerve gas [not in active service]
  • M795 - HE projectile intended to replace the stockpiled M107 and designed to be fired using top zone propelling.
  • M825 WP white phosphorus smoke
    Cargo Carrying 155mm Projectiles
  • M231 MACS
  • M232 MACS
  • M449A1 - Delivers anti-personnel submunitions to defeat enemy personnel in open or uncovered areas.
  • M483A1 FASCAM - Used to deliver a cargo of 88 M46 grenades for defeating armor and personnel targets.
  • M485A1/A2 - Dispenses illumination cargo to provide unaided nighttime vision.
  • M692 ADAM - Delivers anti-personnel mines.
  • M718A1 RAAM - Delivers anti-tank mines to deny/delay access to a particular area.
  • M731 ADAM - Delivers anti-personnel mines.
  • M741A1 RAAM - Delivers anti-tank mines to deny/delay access to a particular area.
  • M825A1 - Most improved version of white phosphorus smoke for obscuring vision to screen maneuvering forces.
  • M864 DPICM - Similar to the M483A1 with the addition of a base burner assembly to decrease drag and increase range.
  • XM867 - Developmental projectile which employs electronic radio jamming devices.
  • M1023 Remote Area Denial Artillery Munition (RADAM)
Smart/Guided 155mm Projectiles
  • M712 Copperhead
  • XM898 SADARM - Developmental projectile with a cargo of two submunitions capable of defeating heavily armored vehicles. Each submunition contains sensors for target detection, a means for stabilizing and controlling the rate of descent, and a warhead capable of defeating armor.
  • XM982 Excalibur - Similiar to the M483A1 with the addition of a rocket motor to further increase the effective range, and with options to increase delivery accuracy.
  • Trajectory Correctable Munition (TCM)

Separate loading ammunition is used in 155mm howitzers. Separate loading ammunition has four separate components: primer, propellant, projectile, and fuze. The four components are issued separately. Upon preparation for firing, the projectile and propellant are loaded into the howitzer in two separate operations. Separate loading ammunition propellants are issued as a separate unit of issue in sealed canisters to protect the propellant. The amount of propellant to be fired with artillery ammunition is varied by the number of propellant increments. The charge selected is based on the range to the target and the tactical situation.

  • Green Bag, M3A1, propellant is designed for firing charges 1 through 5. The propellant is fastened together with four cloth straps sewn to the base and hand tied on top of increment 5. The igniter pad (3.5 oz. CBI) is located on the base increment. The entire M3A1 propellant contains approximately 5.5 pounds of single perforated neutral burning powder. There are flash reducers containing potassium sulfate or potassium nitrate sewn forward of charges 1 (2 oz. pad), 4 and 5 (1 oz. pad each). Explain that each increment varies in size and also explain the purpose and function of flash reducers. The flash reducers limit breech flare back, muzzle flash, and blast over-pressure.
  • White Bag, M4A2 propellant is designed for charges 3 through 7. Their basic configuration is the same as GB propellant. The M4A2 contains approximately 13 lbs. of multi-perforated, (Progressive burn) propellant. A flash reducer pad containing one ounce of potassium nitrate or potassium sulfate is sewn to the base increment.
  • Charge 8WB, M119 - This single increment, multiperforated, white bag charge with a perforated igniter core tube extending through the center of the propellant with a flash reducer sewn to the forward end. It can only be used in the long tube 155mm howitzers (M19 series and the M198). STORE HORIZONTALLY due to the central, perforated igniter core tube. Cannot fire rocket-assisted projectiles using M119 due to the design of the flash reducer.
  • Charge 8WB, M119A1, is exactly the same as the M119 except for the donut shaped flash reducer sewn to the forward end. This design of the flash reducer precludes ignition of the rocket motor for RAP.
  • Charge 7RB, M119A2, is a single increment 7 red bag charge for firing in 155mm howitzers that have the M185 and M199 cannon tubes. The forward end of the charge has a 3-ounce lead foil liner and four pockets sewn longitudinally to the circumference. Each of the four pockets contains 4 oz of potassium sulfate to act as a flash reducer. Charge 7RB can be used interchangeably with charge 8WB with a minor difference in muzzle velocity. The M119A2 was created to correspond with existing NATO firing tables.
  • M203 propellant is a zone 8S charge designed to provide extended range for the M198, M19A5/A6 howitzers. The M203 propellant charge is a single increment, red bag charge with a central igniter core extending through its entire length and a donut-shaped flash reducer at the forward end of the charge. The M203 is used only with the M549A1 (TNT loaded) RAP, the M825 FELT WEDGE, and the M864 base bleed projectiles.
  • M203A1 Propellant Also a single increment base ignited charge. The outer casing is a solid combustible material. There is still an igniter pad at the base of the propellant, and it contains .7 ounces of black powder and 1- ounce of CBI. The propellant is not made up of granules; it consists of 28-pounds of slotted, stick propellant. The M203A1 charge is fired only with the M549A1 (TNT loaded), RAP, M825 felt wedge, and M864 projectiles in the M198 and M109A5/6 howitzers. The reasons for design of the M203A1 propelling charge are; 1) cooler burning, less flash, blast, and tube wear. 2) Casing form is more durable causing for less igniter core damage. 3) For automatic loading systems, it allows fewer mechanical problems.

The Modular Artillery Charge System, a replacement system for 155mm propelling charges, offers simplified logistics compared to traditional bag propellant systems.

 
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2006 at 06:37
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3139944045120551000&q=iran+iraq+war
Look at this video, you can see one of the Iraqi tank crew surviving a mortar round at the end.
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 22:45
found the naval version of that 120mm double barrel AMOS turret from finland. while trying to locate a video on Janes.

Swedish Combatboat 90H assault landing boat (21 April 2004)
An AMOS turret has been installed on a Swedish Combatboat 90H assault landing boat for trials

Link

Edited by Leonidas - 20-Jun-2006 at 05:04
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Posts: 265 		  Quote Desimir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2006 at 12:45
For artillery missiles i choose Smerch and TOS-1,they are just the best.PZH 2000 is the best self propelled artillery(Germans are still making super weapons).Hey jetsetter in the most cases US overstate the quality of their weapons(for example stealth planes,the nuclear shield,abrams tank and etc.)
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Posts: 568 		  Quote Gundamor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2006 at 23:44
Originally posted by Desimir

For artillery missiles i choose Smerch and TOS-1,they are just the best.PZH 2000 is the best self propelled artillery(Germans are still making super weapons).Hey jetsetter in the most cases US overstate the quality of their weapons(for example stealth planes,the nuclear shield,abrams tank and etc.)


And of course the U.S. is the only country that overstates their capabilities.
     
"An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind"
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Posts: 1775 		  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2006 at 04:16
The extraordinary technical wizardry of US would fail because they cannot take human losses, which any good general would be able to inflict even with mediocore weapons.
PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2006 at 01:42
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

The extraordinary technical wizardry of US would fail because they cannot take human losses, which any good general would be able to inflict even with mediocore weapons.
 
Have any proof of this?  You provide a war where the US is in danger and we will fight to the death.
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Posts: 1962 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2006 at 16:08
Since the United States has never* faced an enemy that had the capability to destroy us as a nation / people  nor is it very likely that we will face such an enemy in the forseable future.....
 
Vivek has a very valid point.
 
*The Native Americans have faced such an enemy, but the American nation as a whole has not.


Edited by Cryptic - 16-Sep-2006 at 16:51
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