QuoteReplyTopic: Beauty Pageants Debate Posted: 16-May-2006 at 22:19
BEAUTY PAGEANT DEBATE
Miss Mostar, Bosnia and Herzegovina, 2006
I don't think it's any secret where I stand on this -
but where, in the grand scheme of women's history, especially women's
rights, do you feel beauty pageants stands?
From my point of view, beauty pageants are one of the first steps to
achieving women's rights. Being valued, in any way, is an important
step. (Note only the most totalitarian countries in the world don't
have beauty pageants). That's their first step, giving a value to women
- whatever that might be.
From an Islamic perspective, beauty pageants promote relaxed dress
codes. I wouldn't, and I would never expect any other woman to, dress
in a way they feel goes against Islam but beauty pageants open up
people's minds to discussing issues like - are long sleeves necessary,
and so on.
On the other side, beauty pageants don't evolve much beyond these
initial benefits and as society moves ahead, they can often become
somewhat of an anchor for perceptions of women that refuse to advance
beyond that "they have some value". However, this - I think - is
extremely rare.
I think they're a wonderful way for women to show themselves in a
positive light, especially since most pageants require extensive
volunteer work, charity work, and all of those things. ("All I want is
world peace").
So... let me have it - what do you think? I'd be especially interested
to hear from someone, one other person, who feels the same way.
Its a cattle show ma'am, thats what it is. But, then if somebody wants to partake in such activities he/she should have the right, you cannot impose morality on society.
I think they're a wonderful way for women to show themselves in a positive light, especially since most pageants require extensive volunteer work, charity work, and all of those things. ("All I want is world peace").
Well the certainly "show" themselves. But, as for the rest they all can be done through other means. Voluteer work and charitable causes can be promoted better by those ladies (and many of them from what I have been able to read are highly capable and educated women) if they use their qualifications better. To take an example, a med student can help out a lot more by voluteering to help poor children in their own communities or in poorer countries give medical advice to poor women (especially pregnant women.).
A cattle show, hehehe. :D I anticipated in my mind that this would be
the main response. I agree there are better ways for women to showcase
things like charity work but when you're dealing with a patriarchial
culture, it's a good way to start.
For example, Colombia - which has the same machoist ideals in its
culture as most of Southern Europe - has more beauty pageants probably
than the whole Balkans combined. These started around the same time
women's rights started... there's no way for me to know for sure, but I
think they are linked. :D
Beauty Pagents started around the same time as women's rights? I dodn't think so since I distinctly remember some feminists protesting outside a Miss USA Contest in 68', so I really doubt it.
I think the are some way linked with the whole 1940's and 50's ideal of feminin beauty.
Yes, but for me that is the start of women's rights. When you go from being... nothing, property... to being something independently valued, for whatever reason, that is huge change in the thought process of the society as it relates to women.
I think this is reflected because the pageants were, until very recently, all "Miss". You couldn't be a "Mrs." and compete, you couldn't have children, all of these things still meant you were someone else's property, someone else's private belonging - whereas "Miss" meant you were available, you weren't purchased yet, etc.
Now I don't think beauty pageants are going to get you into MENSA, or to be President, I'm not that... weird... but I do think they played a huge role in the initial development of women's rights. And even today, women are valued tremendously simply for their physical attributes - so it still has some power.
Take for example Miss Bosnia 2003, Irna Smaka. Before that, she was just another university student from rural Bosnia trying to find her way in Sarajevo. After it, now she's the chief executive officer of her hometown, basically the mayor's assistant. That would never have happened for her otherwise, it would be a man in that position. But because the whole town was so proud their little Irna won Miss Bosnia, she has free reign to stick herself into roles traditionally excluding women.
Now that was her difference. The little girls in Kakanj growing up today, and more importantly the little boys, will see that there is a woman CEO - they don't know how she got there, even they did they'd not truly understand it. So for them a woman in such a high-ranking position is normal.
I think this is the type of differences they can still make today, but it's extremely rare. I give them credit mainly for giving women a value independent of their men.
As I said, it's the first time they were valued not for being Mrs. but for being Miss.
Yes, but for me that is the start of women's rights. When you go from being... nothing, property... to being something independently valued, for whatever reason, that is huge change in the thought process of the society as it relates to women.
.
I on the other hand see very little differance in the two. To base a persons value on something as shallow and fleeting as how you look is no differant than to base it on what position in society your family holds or how much your dowery is. Yes these contests are not just looks but when was the last time you saw an ugly or even average looking girl win one? It gives the wrong message all together- that you only have value if you are gorgous and fit the ideals of society at that time. It may open doors for a few but on the by and large most don't benifit from it.
if it were a Miss Ugly contest with similar prizes and similar World recognition would you feel these woman were standing up for womans rights? Or debasing themselves and woman as a whole?
i reckon both contests are one and the same thing.
looks aren't everything; it's whats inside that counts
p.s. woman should be able to wear what they want when they want and not have to feel scorned by any religious convention. men and woman are equals and its about time they were treated as such.
As far as I am aware, Albania, Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, and Malaysia are the only Islamic countries that have historically participated (or rather, sent representatives) in international beauty pageants
Miss Afghanistan participated but was quickly condemned by the religious establishment of that country:
In Islam, Muslim women are to remain veiled so naturally the Islamic clergy has been quick to condemn any participation of Muslim women in beauty pageants.
Well, my opinion is that beauty pageants degrade and exploit women. I cannot understand how anyone can "save the world" by showing how good they look wearing a bathing suit or how well they can recite their speeches, or say what they know the judges want to hear. Men are usually the ones who produce said pageants (and we all know what they think with), and, of course, it's a great way to get a large viewing male audience. However, even though I don't agree with beauty pageants, I don't condemn them, and all those who want to watch or participate in them certainly have a right to do so. The women participating in the beauty pageants get lots of "perks" and exposure, and if it will help any one of them further their careers, then more power to them! BRAVO!
Edited by morticia - 19-May-2006 at 13:58
"Morty
Trust in God: She will provide." -- Emmeline Pankhurst
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