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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ask Questions about Arabic languge
    Posted: 13-Apr-2006 at 20:19

this thread for whom who has questions about Arabic words' meaning and pronounciation.

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  Quote Apples n Oranges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2006 at 22:56

Azimuth I once bought a book on Learning Arabic.The Sun and the Moon letters and the way they affect the pronounciation of 'L' in 'AL' killed my desire to learn Arabic.

Could you explain the rules in a simple manner.When the 'L' in 'AL' is pronounced and when it is silent.

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 00:27

 

i dont remember but i guess it has to do with the Letter comes after the Al.

i think Mira would know that better than me.

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  Quote Apples n Oranges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 00:40
OK for the time being plz show us how the Arabic alphabets are pronounced.There are major differences in the way many Arabic alphabets are pronounced in Arabic and Farsi/Urdu.
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  Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 02:40

I know that when the Arabic words are pluralised, the whole word changes. Like sing. "veled" pl. "evlad". I want to learn the rules. Also the rules of ism-i fail, if possible

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  Quote Mira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 04:06
Originally posted by Apples n Oranges

Azimuth I once bought a book on Learning Arabic.The Sun and the Moon letters and the way they affect the pronounciation of 'L' in 'AL' killed my desire to learn Arabic.

Could you explain the rules in a simple manner.When the 'L' in 'AL' is pronounced and when it is silent.



The letter L in Arabic looks like this:

In English, L is pronounced "El."  In Arabic, it's "Laam."

We have two laams in the Arabic language.  al-Laam al Shamsiya (Sun letter) and al-Laam al Qamariya (Moon letter.)

How you categorize these laams (as Sun or Moon) depends on the definite nouns they precede. "Al" in Arabic is usually the equivalent of "The." 

E.g.  The car = 

Although it's written this way: Al-Sayyarah, it's actually pronounced this way: As-Sayyarah.  That's an example of "Sun letters," where the laam is pronounced like the consonant that follows it.

For learners of Arabic, I think it's easier to memorize the "Sun letters."  They are as following:

Ta, Tha, Dal, Thal, Ra'a, Zaay, Seen, Sheen, Saad, Dhaad, Tah, Dhah, and Noon.

The same letters in Arabic, from right to left:



The rest of the letters are "Moon letters."

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  Quote Mira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 04:14
Originally posted by Apples n Oranges

OK for the time being plz show us how the Arabic alphabets are pronounced.There are major differences in the way many Arabic alphabets are pronounced in Arabic and Farsi/Urdu.


I found this website with the Arabic alphabets and their pronunciation.  You can listen to how the alphabets are pronounced.

http://www.arabic2000.com/arabic/alphabet.html
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  Quote The Chargemaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 04:30

Originally posted by azimuth

this thread for whom who has questions about Arabic words' meaning

Well, what means the arabic text in your signature?

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  Quote Mira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 04:30
Originally posted by kotumeyil

I know that when the Arabic words are pluralised, the whole word changes. Like sing. "veled" pl. "evlad". I want to learn the rules. Also the rules of ism-i fail, if possible



Salaamz kotumeyil,

Isim al-fa'il is an advanced question

Basically, any verb that you can 'nounize' (if I may use such a word) is called isim al-fa'il.

E.g. The boy wrote the book.  The boy is the writer.  Writer is the isim al-fa'il for the verb 'wrote.'

In Arabic:



Kattaba al-Waladu al-Kitaab

Kattaba is the verb.  Al-Waladu is a noun, and he's the fa'il.  Al-Kitaab is a noun, and it's the maf'oul bihi. (I'm assuming you know all this?)

Because the "walad" was the fa'il, who did the fi'il (verb), which is kattaba, he is referred to as the kaatib (writer).  So kaatib becomes the "isim al fa'il."

I'm not sure I'm a good teacher.  I'm doing my best.
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  Quote Mira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 04:36
Originally posted by kotumeyil

I know that when the Arabic words are pluralised, the whole word changes. Like sing. "veled" pl. "evlad". I want to learn the rules. Also the rules of ism-i fail, if possible



I forgot to add:

The "rules for pluralizing nouns" is pretty heavy grammar.  If you think I can explain well, I'll tell you more about al-Jumu'ou wa Ahkamuha (Plurals and its forms.)
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  Quote The Chargemaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 04:40

What are the differences and the similarities between the arabian and the jewish languages?

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  Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 04:58
Originally posted by Mira

Originally posted by kotumeyil

I know that when the Arabic words are pluralised, the whole word changes. Like sing. "veled" pl. "evlad". I want to learn the rules. Also the rules of ism-i fail, if possible



I forgot to add:

The "rules for pluralizing nouns" is pretty heavy grammar.  If you think I can explain well, I'll tell you more about al-Jumu'ou wa Ahkamuha (Plurals and its forms.)

I have little knowledge on Arabic grammar. However we have a lot of Arabic words in our language. Also the Ottomans used the Arabics much more than today. So I want to learn how the singular and plural forms differ and if there's a simple rule for it. Yes, you are good teacher, however I'm the very beginner student so you'd better teach simpler  

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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 08:42

Kattaba al-Waladu al-Kitaab

So the word order in a gramatically normal sentence is VERB-SUBJECT-OBJECT? VSO?

More questions,

a. does Arabic have gender (i.e. masculine and feminine words)?

b. How different is classical Arabic from local dialects? Can everyone in the Arabic world speak/understand classical Arabic? Are all TV shows and newspapers written in classical Arabic? Is this language the same as Arabic of the Quran?

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  Quote Apples n Oranges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 13:16

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

 How different is classical Arabic from local dialects? Can everyone in the Arabic world speak/understand classical Arabic? 

I may not be qualified to answer these questions but from my understanding.

a]Arabic is spoken over a large area and dialects vary a lot.Arabic dialect spoken in Morocco and Arabic dialect spoken in Iran can vary as much as Portuguese from Romanian/Italian.

b]Literate people all over the Arabic world can speak/understand classical Arabic.

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  Quote Mira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 15:14
Originally posted by kotumeyil

I have little knowledge on Arabic grammar. However we have a lot of Arabic words in our language. Also the Ottomans used the Arabics much more than today. So I want to learn how the singular and plural forms differ and if there's a simple rule for it. Yes, you are good teacher, however I'm the very beginner student so you'd better teach simpler  


Aay!  I'm flattered

Let's see ..

*rolling up my sleeves*

Mufrad = Singular
Muthanna = Dual
Jam' = Plural

Both Muthanna and Jam' are equivalent to the English "Plural."

Walad = Boy (Mufrad)
Waladaan = 2 Boys (Muthanna)
Awlaad = A group of boys. (Jam')

You asked about why "walad" changes to "awlaad" when pluralized.  This form of jam' we call, Jami al-Qillah (literally: Pluralizing the few.)

For numbers between 3-10 (remember, 1 is Mufrad and 2 is Muthanna) the words should be on the scale of (ya'ani similar in sound and construction) of:

Af'al, e.g. Ajmal (Plural for jameel; beautiful)
Af'aal, e.g. Awlaad (Plural for walad; boy)
Af'illah, e.g. Akhbizah (Plural for khubz; bread)
Fi'lah, e.g. Fityah (Plural for Fataa; young boy)

I didn't really brief you on the Plural and its forms like I said I would.  It would take a good two hours to come up with a simple explanation.  I just answered your question about "walad" and "awlaad."  I hope you don't mind?
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  Quote Mira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 15:27
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

Kattaba al-Waladu al-Kitaab

So the word order in a gramatically normal sentence is VERB-SUBJECT-OBJECT? VSO?


In this sentence only. 

It could also be SVO, or VO only.

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

More questions,

a. does Arabic have gender (i.e. masculine and feminine words)?


Yes.  The dual and plural forms of gender-words differ, too.

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

b. How different is classical Arabic from local dialects? Can everyone in the Arabic world speak/understand classical Arabic? Are all TV shows and newspapers written in classical Arabic? Is this language the same as Arabic of the Quran?

Everyone in the Arab world can speak, write and understand classical Arabic.  In fact, kids learn it before going to school because cartoons (and dubbed Mexican serials ) are done in classical Arabic.  The grammar is studied throughout school (12 years).

Not all TV shows are done in classical Arabic.  Most kids' shows are in classical Arabic.  Egyptian serials, for example, will speak with an Egyptian dialect.  Newspapers, however, are all published in classical Arabic.

It differs a lot from the local dialects.  I heard some Westerners who learned Arabic say that they found the Yemeni dialect to be the closest to the classical Arabic -  I'm not sure about that though.  Arabs from all over the Arab world do understand each other, but in varying degrees.  I'm pretty sure that all Arabs are familiar with the Egyptian dialect, since it's the most popular.  Shaami (Greater Syria; which includes Syria, Jordan, Palestine and Lebanon) dialects come second in their popularity.  Gulf dialects are not easily understood, but conversing with a Gulfanian sounds more "Arabic" compared to dialects from the Moroccan bloc.  We usually require a translators when a Moroccan is involved in the conversation Actually, in all the times I've come across a Moroccan, we've ended up switching to classical Arabic.

Classical Arabic is the same as the Arabic of the Qur'an, except that the Arabic of the Qur'an is a bit more sophisticated and eloquent.

I hope this answers your questions.



Edited by Mira
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  Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 15:27

Could I ask a question that has more to do with dialect and use than meaning?

In the Christian churches that still use classical languages, the dialect used is archaic (although the pronunciations are often modernized). Is the same true in Islamic worship? What form of Arabic do you use?

-Akolouthos

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  Quote Mira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 15:32
Originally posted by Akolouthos

Could I ask a question that has more to do with dialect and use than meaning?

In the Christian churches that still use classical languages, the dialect used is archaic (although the pronunciations are often modernized). Is the same true in Islamic worship? What form of Arabic do you use?

-Akolouthos



For worship, we all use classical Arabic. 
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  Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 15:33

Talk about prompt! Thank you much Mira .

-Akolouthos

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  Quote Mira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 15:36
You're most welcome, Akolouthos
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