Greatest modern army?

Originally posted by Maljkovic British: Very good equipment, but a poorly led army. Training OK.only

Disputed. British Army officers are very, very highly trained (I would probably rate Sandhurst above West Point). Training similarly is very good, not only that but more general experience and a wider depth of abilities.

The RAF i will admit is nothing compared to USAAF. Similarly for the Royal Navy thanks to budget cuts.

The Army however is very good aside from bad equipment. It is designed differently to the American army thats all.

However i vote for the American army as taking Modern to mean 1990+ they have a better army than any in the world overall.

Originally posted by machine Is it just me or do some Americans think that the Soviet troops were ill-trained and poorly equipped?????

Yup, but i would argue many Russian troops were badly trained compared to other nations. Russia had some very good troops (for example the Siberians) and some very bad (the tribal conscripts). As for ill equipped Russians had some of the best equipment, the T-34 was superior to all Allied tanks of the same class (like the Sherman or Cromwell) as well as being better than many German tanks (Mk III, IV). American troops were not particually well trained either in many cases.

Originally posted by kthor and I don't believe being gay has anything to do with the quality of being a good soldier or not. for thousands of years, gays had fought wars, won and loss wars, gained glory and honor so forth alongside normal people. <no im not gay>.

To prove that there is evidence that Thebes Sacred Band, probaby the best Hoplite Regiment in Greece was all gay or had large numbers of homosexuals. Similarly homosexuality was common in much of the ancient world but that has not stopped them having good soldiers.

Originally posted by Dampier Originally posted by machine Is it just me or do some Americans think that the Soviet troops were ill-trained and poorly equipped????? Yup, but i would argue many Russian troops were badly trained compared to other nations. Russia had some very good troops (for example the Siberians) and some very bad (the tribal conscripts). As for ill equipped Russians had some of the best equipment, the T-34 was superior to all Allied tanks of the same class (like the Sherman or Cromwell) as well as being better than many German tanks (Mk III, IV). American troops were not particually well trained either in many cases.

Germany produced many awesome tanks, sorry dont know all their names but the Ferdinand was a moving fortress, Too bad the electronics were rushed.

Did the Ruskis have anything like the Ferdinand. Im sure i read a German soldiers account about unknown tanks during the Battle of Kursk *They should make a movie on Kursk, biggest armoured battle to ever take place*.

Umm..OK not girly men gays but then again wussy men dont make great soldiers either.

As for German tanks they were the best (Tiger, King Tiger, Panther, Jagdpanzer etc) but the m,ain tanks were the Mark III and IV's which were inferior to the T-34. The difference is that Russian tanks lack sophistication but are cheaper, far more reliable and use less fuel. Something likem a King Tiger is brilliant but electronics are failures and most such 'super tanks' were crippled with either no fuel or mechanical problems.

Must agree with Russian here...about the best tank.

Originally posted by Russian Hi guys, I am new on the forums, joined because kinda interested in these discussions here. I would say this: Russia undoubtedly has most powerful land army and largest unclear arsenal in the world RIGHT NOW, american army stands nowhere near russian or chinese. guess what happens if US starts land operation in Iran, IT LOSES, not in liberating country, not in anti-terrorist stuff, it loses the full scale war, because it is not made to be in full scale war, while armies like Russian or Chinese are, US land army is made to resolve small military conflict or invade small country like Iraq, it is different philosophy of war. America has most powerful NAVY and aviation, but NEVER land army, they also have second largest nuclear forces. Americans won ECONOMIC war (Cold war), going in to war with Soviet Union was NOT possible, at least not feasible, if allies would go war on USSR, USSR would not even notice them, within months Stalin would be sitting on shores of Atlantic with all europe being communist, and looking for USA, looking for how he can make it USSA (United Socialist States of America) The problem was US nukes, they were not enough to destroy Red Army, but Red army also didn't want to take risk, in this sense, US literally saved Europe. and Yes, it is funny to say Average about Russian SS-18, which is feared by americans, or Topol M, or Smerch MLRS, and of course S-400, compare these to their american counterparts and you will easily find out which land army is the most powerful, also I would suggest comparing these units by cost, speed of manufacturing and other production factors my friend, and then make any conclusions about "average" russian land army. Also, I agree with edgewaters, saying that russian equipment is average is top of ignorance, please, tell me which rocket artillery is better than Smerch, which Anti aircraft defence is better than S-400 and which ICBM is more powerful than SS-18? After you give me answers for these, you can call russian equipment average, the problem is, you will not be able to, get a clue about equipment and then post, Maljkovic. Also, few words for Gharanai, if Russia or America want it, they will kill all afghanistan people in a year, trust me on that one, the problem is that the reasons of war were different, not to slaughter all afghanis and leave, but to fight terrorism and other stupid causes. If Russia or America wants, it will, without any air support completely anihilate Afghanistan from the map of the world. Also, General winter is a common misconception, how did winter help Stalingrad or Moscow? It stopped german tanks and vehicles, what does it mean? THAT THEY ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH and not reliable enough, not that winter helps russians, russians, however, had reliable vehicles, General winter is a common MYTH invented by germans and French who didn't like that Russia defeated them, especially germans, invaded How many times did Russia take Berlin? One, NOPE, two times, one more during Katherine rule, apart of course from WW2. Soviet Union was, as has been stated, the MAJOR force that defeated germans, it was not americans, not british, it was soviets, it was only after soviets started pushing germans back, allies opened second front, US now tries to undermine the role of soviets or russians in WW2 by saying "AHHHH, it was russian winter, our help and that's it, we won", that's not true, Hitler admitted in the beginning of the war that he made mistake by attacking Russia.

 100% AGREE!!! BUT, HOW YOU FORGOT TO METION THE GREATEST EVER WEAPON CREATED BY MANKIND?   THE AK-47 KALASHNIKOV!!!

Originally posted by Americanus The United States has the best modern military in the world. But the British have pretty good forces to and a good navy so theyre up thier to.

Any proof of that?

Bett training, maybe, better human rigths in the army, yes, but better land army eqipment? better rockets? NO.

Tell me, which american ICBM is better than SS-18, that you, americans, designated SATAN? or which one is better than Bulava SS-30, naval ICBM, or Topol M, which is the only quazi-ballistic missile in deployment of any country?

Next:
which rocket artillery of US is better than SMERCH MLRS? what your M270? with laughable range of 45 km? or 65 if extended, against Smerch 70 km and 90 extended, note that range is only one advantage of Smerch.

Or tell me which fighter of USAF is more maneuverable that Su-30 MK or MIG-29 OVT, and please don't give me famous and ignorant claim by americans that their F-14 is so much better than Mig-29 that in Yugoslavia you almost didn't lose any aircrafts. We all know that in most instances one mig had to fight 14 F-14s at one time, what a good aircraft

I am talking one on one here, look at some videos of SU-30 MK and then give me a link of any emrcian fighter which can do this, give me a video of Raptor which can go for these maneuverse, I tell you what, Eurofighter tried to do SU-30 MK manuevers, and it fell apart IN THE SKIES, same is going to happen to most US fighters.

You have best tank? Never, in tank to tank battle Abrams will not be that good, without ability to launch ATGMs and therefore to seriously engage other tanks at extended ranges it will be destroyed at ranges of 4-5 km by T-90 or at ranges of 8 km by Merkava 4 with it's LAHAT. Jew, after all, are smart.

Air defence: Patriot? what about S-400 with range of 400 km compared to Patriot's 160 km and ability to engage cruise missiles and scuds.

as we can see, US doesn't have that best of a military right now, it says it has, but it doesn't, it covers all it's losses to make itself look powerful and undefeatable, but it is not true, and hey, attacking a state that falls apart allready is not that of an achievement, especially considering that US will be driven away from Iraq in 5 years according to some people estimates.

US has the most powerful Navy though, no argument about that, but in the end, when you want to go in full scale war, it is ALL about LAND ARMY.

US has the most USEFUL army nowadays, now that might be true, small, mobile, to resolve military conflict, however, it is not suited for a full scale war.

You see, US made a good choice, it choose to prevent enemy from landing on it's soil, hence it understood it has to have most powerful fleet, and it does, which is good, if Hitler would land on US soil, he would undoubtly conquer US, but the problem is that US would never let him land there.

You might say that US is kinda lucky to be there on it's own continent, on the new land, away from the huge land wars of Europe and Asia, and I guess it is true, otherwise, it woud be conquered many times over already.


want to prove me wrong Americanus, name me some American nuke, or tank, or artillery system, or aircraft, or air-to air rocket, close range or long range that is better than russian, then we will talk about american army, but for now, it most of the time takes by number, as it did in WW2.

Thank you Sherzod, it is good to know that there are some people who do not just listen to american propaganda and support america as the unbeatable nation.

Yeah, AK-47 is awesome gun, Mikhail Kalashnikov made this gun with only high school education, and hey, if you take one of the guns made all the way back in 1947, it will still shoot, the guy made everything you need in one reliable package. Russian soldiers say it is eternal.

A little story: I assembeled and disassembeled it when I was on the trip to border base of russian military, border with China, when I was doing it, I tried to be careful, not to break it, and soldier came to me and said: "What are you affraid of?" he took kalashnokov, threw it on the concrete ground with some force, picked it up, took all the parts from the ground (when it was thrown, it was half-assemblled) and assembled it by himself in a minute and it worked, then he let me asemble it, and it turned out to be very easy, it has only 5-6 parts, that's it, it can be done in no time. Also, if you put it completely in the mud, and pick it up an hour ago, it will shoot, if you put it in to sand for 2 hours, you pic it up, it will shoot. As it was said in the movie "The Lord of War" "it will never jam or overheat, it will shoot whether it is covered in mud or filled with sand.

sorry for big message

Originally posted by Major D. Originally posted by Iranian41ife I vote for the German army. Overall, it was definetly the best trained, best equiped, and best lead army. Note: dont choose the US or Russia just because they were superpowers, think about their armies over all, with specific attention to the world wars.

Oh really, why not vote for Russian army then?

Germans tried to invade Russia in medieval ages, with it's Teutonic knightes, what happened? Got their ass kicked. During the rule of Katherine Russia was sole europe superpower, almost single country that dictated conditions to europe, Sweden tried to invade, suffered mounting human and territory losses.

Who defeated Bonaparte, was it Germany?
Who defeated Teutonic knights?
Russians took Berlin also in 1760.
In general, what country is known as a country that shouldn't be invaded?

However, there are countries like China, Egypt and whole bunch of middle east countries with HUGE history, they can be said to have good armies in history, ther ehas been rise and fall of every army I would say, depends on year.

I didn't vote for Russia because it was superpower, but because of attention to world wars, actually it is right to say this planet wars, because world is much bigger than this planet

plus if you pay attention to world wars now, and the question is: Greatest Modern Army, well, germany is not involved in any military conflict as far as I know. Russia at least has Chechnya, America has Iraq.

I don't know what is meant by "THE BEST" army, if it is meant the most powerful, then it is American-air forces, Navy; Russian-land Army.

Germany has neither air forces, nor land army, nor navy stronger than either russian or american, nor is itmore mobile than american or russian.


I was born in USSR too Sherzod, it was the most powerful country and the largest that ever existed on the planet, but the idea was wrong, communism like Soviet leaders tried to build it was not working, plus about arms race and all that stuff, and about competiton, I want to say that it is extremely hard to compete with country on scientific level if the country is pouring almost all of it's recources in to military and military sciences.

I am pretty sure USSR was developing something like what you are saying Sherzod, but if they did, it would be top secret and I doubt we will know.

the problem is I think that some people don't want to learn.

I live in Canada, and some people here think that Canada is bigger than Russia, and I am asking "Do you mean area?" and they are saying YES, by area, Canada is biggest, and then I am saying "Are you guys crazy?" They are saying that Russia fell apart somewhere in early 90's, and now it is smaller than Canada. After long discussion it turned out that Russia falling apart is dissolution of Soviet Union, and then I explained that what fell apart was largest country ever on the earth, and even though Russia was largest of it's republics, it was still only a part of this country, and even after it's dissolution, Russia is still almost twice as big as Canada is by area, people in North America ( I am talking about great majority, not some people who actually learn) tend not to give a sh*t about any other country, they consider their country to be the best and most powerful in all aspects, well, this is what goverment tells them, and they don't want to do research by themselves.

Edited by Russian

I've heard of calculations where the power of US is equivalent to the next 13 of the most powerful countries combined. Other calculations show that the US only has 15% of the world power while Russia/China is 2 and 4 % away in that order(but this calculation probably included the existence of nuclear missiles, which pretty much evens out the playing field almost completely because any country with enough missles can destroy any other country).