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Raider
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Topic: Notable Battles of Medieval Hungarians Posted: 15-Jul-2007 at 08:07 |
Originally posted by svantoVID
would it be possible for someone to pick into hungarian royal archieves,
say between 1385-1397
sigismund, queen maria, palatine, garai, ...
although the arhive is written in latin, i understand, there is also a (at least part of) hungarian translation with explanations
someone from hungary might be in better position to explain local geography and customs ...
this may give us some additional insight into
1387 death of elizabeth kotromanic
1389 b of kosovo
1394 b of karanovasa
1395 b of rovine
1396 b of nicopolis
1397 krizevci massacre
...
one might expect sigismund might have done a lot of cleaning ... |
Unfortunately the medieval royal archive was destroyed. In 1541 when the Ottomans captured Buda, the sultan ordered to carry it to Constantinople. It was embarked, but the cargo ships never reached the city, they sunk to the bottom of the Danube.
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rider
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Posted: 15-Jul-2007 at 08:32 |
Oh, shall you write about a battle again too?
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Posted: 15-Jul-2007 at 09:08 |
Originally posted by Raider
Anyway It is interesting that in the picture illustrating the battle you can see both element of the Hungarian coat of arms. Red and Silver stripes as the symbol of the Royal House (with additional fleur-de-lys of the Capet-Anjous) and the triple mound with the patriarchal cross as a symbol of the nobilitas, the country itself. The later is broken to sign the defeat.
Coat of arms of Hungary:
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I'm interested in history of Szeklers and of knowledge of crests
Could you explain me what is a meaning of Erdely Crest Sun and Moon
which is considered as sign of Szeklers?Where it come from?
And one more question .In Poland lot of people have name Bator which means in hungarian brave . I have heard this not only name but also title
it is true?
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Raider
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Posted: 15-Jul-2007 at 09:24 |
Originally posted by rider
Oh, shall you write about a battle again too? |
Well, I am planning to do it. The second battle of Kosovo Polje should be the next.
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rider
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Posted: 15-Jul-2007 at 11:42 |
I believe the Polish 'Bator' may be due to their fabled king Stefan Batory... he was a good and powerful king, easy to set him as an example to future generations... anyone can confirm this?
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Tar Szernd
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Posted: 16-Jul-2007 at 02:20 |
Maybee that's the reason too, but bator means really brave.
It's very interesting that on some of the old asian gravings and paintings showing a ruler there are the moon and a star above them.
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Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 10:58 |
Originally posted by Raider
Unfortunately the medieval royal archive was destroyed. In 1541 when the Ottomans captured Buda, the sultan ordered to carry it to Constantinople. It was embarked, but the cargo ships never reached the city, they sunk to the bottom of the Danube. |
my wishlist: dig it
Edited by svantoVID - 19-Jul-2007 at 11:00
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Posted: 27-Aug-2007 at 23:51 |
any info about the following battles is welcome
895 ? magyars + byzant against simeon of bulgaria
907 jul-aug 3 battles near bratislava castle
910 the first battle of lechfeld
tnx
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Darius of Parsa
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Posted: 16-Oct-2007 at 07:09 |
The siege of Edger in the 1540's ( year may be incorrect ) was also a notable battle of the nation of Hungary. The small Hungarian garrison succesfully held off a Turkish invasion and made the Ottomans fall back in a hasty retreat. The Hungarians were noted to pour boiling hot water and pitch at the enemy when they tried to ladder the walls.
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What is the officer problem?
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Raider
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Posted: 23-Oct-2007 at 18:45 |
Originally posted by Darius of Parsa
The siege of Edger in the 1540's ( year may be incorrect ) was also a notable battle of the nation of Hungary. The small Hungarian garrison succesfully held off a Turkish invasion and made the Ottomans fall back in a hasty retreat. The Hungarians were noted to pour boiling hot water and pitch at the enemy when they tried to ladder the walls. |
It is Eger. Yes, it is a famous siege due to the chronicle song written by Tindi.
In 1552 in Eger castle 2100 men, women and children resisted an Ottoman army numbered 40-80 000 men.
The main effect of this victory was not strategical, but psichological. It showed that the Ottomans are not unstoppable. It was a notable role in the increase of moral. When Eger was sieged the second time in 1596 it was captured after a 6 six days siege. It was defended by international mercenaries, professional soldiers. So Eger became an emblem of national defence, a symbol of patrotic heroism and the superiority of a national army over an unmotivated mercenary force.
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Posted: 06-Apr-2008 at 14:53 |
Really this is an interesting topic... Tones of useful informations about one of the greatest nations in Europe - Hungarians... Too bad, this topic seem not to be active lately.
It was a nice thing for me to go through texts and views of both sides, Turks and Hungarians... especially because few of my direct ancestors were highly ranked comanders of Bosnian part of Ottoman troops. One of them even died in Hungary, where he was on duty as a governer of city Eger for a few years.
Edited by Osman-pasha Kazanac - 06-Apr-2008 at 15:08
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Carpathian Wolf
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Posted: 24-Sep-2008 at 00:33 |
There is also the battle of Posada in which the family of Basarab defeated an army with a 3:1 disadvantage. From my understanding most of the "Wallachian" troops had been peasants and ambushed the 30,000 strong Hungarian force killing almost the entire army to the man. Charles Robert, King of Hungary had to dress up in another man's clothes to run away while his knights died under hail of "stones and arrows."
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Posted: 27-Mar-2009 at 08:40 |
Originally posted by Carpathian Wolf
There is also the battle of Posada in which the family of Basarab defeated an army with a 3:1 disadvantage. From my understanding most of the "Wallachian" troops had been peasants and ambushed the 30,000 strong Hungarian force killing almost the entire army to the man. Charles Robert, King of Hungary had to dress up in another man's clothes to run away while his knights died under hail of "stones and arrows." |
Only Romanian sources claim this, your information is VERY doubtful. It's probably rewritten 10 times or more.
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Hungo
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Posted: 27-Mar-2009 at 15:23 |
Battle of Kenyermezo:
The battle of
Kenyérmező happened in– Transylvania - (Romanian Bătălia Campo de la Pâinii)
1479 October 13 between the Hungarian army and marauding armies of Turks, who
were also supported by wallachians. The site Kiralyfold the west side of
Hunyad county border, and it is located
on the south coast of the Maros river. The location can be accurately measured
because of the battle site, a been chapel built in the by the Transylvanian
Voivod, and remains until the 20th of this century remain.
The battle for Hungary had the most significant win over Turks, who had been
defeated, and not tried the similar
marauding acts.
Some sources, about the Turkish army is estimated at around
60 thousand people. Jan Długosz describes hundreds of thousands the army of
Ali, while the letters of King Matthias only 43-45 thousand with the
wallachians
Transylvania invading army, most of the irregular units, mainly
akinjis and ruméliai spahi were also relatively small number of infantry
consisted of asabs. Many historians,
however, likely that the Turks brought with them guns, but they are less
powerful and may have a small cannon, which were carried in carts.
The Hungarian forces were
joined with Vuk Brankovic (serbian voivid) a la number of Serb who led infantry
and cavalry, 900 of these light calavriers were directed by Jaksics Demeter and his brother. Near the sources, it
was tens of thousands of Romanians, in reality, however, only be a few thousand
helped the hungarian army.(both wallachian, and transylvanian
romanians)Thier leader was Basarab the III. a banished ruler from Wallachia In
addition, fighting in the army Szeklers
and Saxons (these were pedestrians only), and participated in the battle the bishop of Transylvania.
The chiefs of teh army were
Istvan Bathori, Pal Kinizsi (he could fight with 2 swords in his hands) and
Brankovic. The total 12-15 thousand people had it, but can not be excluded, the
number of twenty thousand people. But thirty thousand people, not more, that
the Turks may have little more or the same number of Hungarians were
opposed.
Edited by Hungo - 27-Mar-2009 at 15:49
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Attila király katonája
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Hungo
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Posted: 27-Mar-2009 at 15:26 |
On 13 October, the turks camped down near to Kenyermezo. The army was set up in
three columns, the kenyermezo forest. Kinizsi the right wing, left wing was
Brankovic, and Brankovic Jaksith for the Serb-led light cavalry, and the
Saxons, while the middle Báthory’s strong team.
Bonfini describes the battle that Báthory attacked first on the Turks, they
were in the back, but then came Kinizsi attacking the army and managed to bleat
leverni Ali.
The Turkish sources Kinizsi participated in the battle from the outset against the
Aliled troops,while Báthory fighting with Isza Begg, while Basarab Oglu faced Malkocs
calavry..
The battle began at one o'clock this afternoon, and was first shown a
superiority of the Turks. Bonfini describes the events that the Hungarians at
the beginning of panicked because Báthory's horse stumbled, and it was the
wrong preliminary.
Ali begg frightened when he saw that the assault Kinizsi’s
heavy cavalry. The charge against him hurriedly picked up the terrified Ali, and then
suddenly withdrew from the field, the men left behind. At this moment Kinizsi
had the chance to help Bathory in his hour of need. The fight is held for
hours, because the Turkish army were fighting strong, but when Isza beg
mortally wounded and had to leave the battlefield, the result was near The remained Turkish center also started to
flee, with it the akinjis too.
Pal Kinizsi
Edited by Hungo - 27-Mar-2009 at 15:37
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Attila király katonája
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Hungo
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Posted: 27-Mar-2009 at 15:36 |
Egri Csillagok ( Eclipse of the crescent moon)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsA1DN8Z5Ak
its a short clip of a very great hungarian movie. The theme is the siege of Eger in 1552. 2000 hungarians defended the fortress against the outnumbered ottoman army.
about Eger:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDSQW8jwWE0&feature=related
Edited by Hungo - 27-Mar-2009 at 15:43
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Attila király katonája
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Posted: 07-Oct-2009 at 13:34 |
Originally posted by NikeBG
Originally posted by Socrates
Who are Cumans? |
The Cumans are one big ethnos from around the 12-13 centuries, which
lived to the north of the Danube and were a considerable factor at
their time. There are also reports that they have been used quite often
in the Bulgarian army, especially by Tsar Kaloian against the Crusaders
from the 4th Crusade. But with the coming of the Tartars they were
further pushed out of their homes and were soon assimilated. I think
there are reports of them moving to Bulgaria and I've heard even some
doubts of the modern day "Gagauzi" to be actually Cuman descendants.
Also there are some villages in Buglaria called Kumanovo and I think
there's even one in Macedonia (which btw would be interesting if
they've reached even there).
On-topic: I also would like to hear more about the Hungarian battles, especially the Varna one (from 1444, right?), due to obvious reasons. Actually, I always love to read about any battle, so just keep posting!
| Cumans ( Byzantine Greek: Κο(υ)μάνοι, Ko(u)manoi; [1] Hungarian: kun / plural kunok; [2] Turkic: kuman / plural kumanlar[3]) were a nomadic Turkic people who inhabited a shifting area north of the Black Sea known as Cumania along the Volga River. They eventually settled to the west of the Black Sea, influencing the politics of Bulgaria, Serbia, Hungary, Moldavia, and Wallachia. Cuman is an exonym for the western Kipchak tribes living in Central Europe and the Balkans. Yuo forget toy sa the most impotant thing. They are Turk.
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diegis1
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Posted: 23-Dec-2009 at 08:16 |
Originally posted by SWE1700
Originally posted by Carpathian Wolf
There is also the battle of Posada in which the family of Basarab defeated an army with a 3:1 disadvantage. From my understanding most of the "Wallachian" troops had been peasants and ambushed the 30,000 strong Hungarian force killing almost the entire army to the man. Charles Robert, King of Hungary had to dress up in another man's clothes to run away while his knights died under hail of "stones and arrows." |
Only Romanian sources claim this, your information is VERY doubtful. It's probably rewritten 10 times or more.
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The most famous reproductions of the battle is in the so called "Painted Chronicle from Vienna", and i dont think that is a romanian source, quite contrary. But as anybody, hungarians lose some battles as well, they was not just winning. However, they had a fair share of victories, ofcourse, and is a nice topic about them.
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