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Topic ClosedWho are the five greatest generals of all time?
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Kemalist_Mehmet View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
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    Posted: 12-Jan-2006 at 08:27

barish I am not Rachist already you looks like NAZI and I hate to be Rachist I am Nationalist of ATATURK and Oguz Khan was Leader of Oguz Turks
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Posts: 58 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2006 at 09:31
Here is mine
1.Scipio Africanus:Well trained army, first roman general to realise the importance of having a well trained cavalry arm.
2.Hannibal Barca
3.Duke of Wellington
4.Subedai
5.Rommel
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DayI View Drop Down
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Posts: 2408 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2006 at 11:32
Originally posted by Tegin

Originally posted by DayI

Originally posted by Kemalist_Mehmet

i am suspecting of You are Turkish As far as I'm Concerned u must check your Turkish Blood

I am suspecting of youre brains are ok... Oghuz kagan whas a myth, like the myth of Asena, manas, tepegz, etc etc

 

Oguz kagan is a myth????

You are really funny?

Asena is a myth.

Manas and Tepegz are tales of Dede Korkut.

But Oguz Khan is a Well-known Real personality.

Have you ever heard book such as Divan-i lgat- Trk ? (mahmud from kashgar)

Do you know who is Alp Er Tunga?

Have u ever heard gagauz (gokoguz)people who trying to survive somewhere in Russia?

If Oguz khan is a myth. Seljuks and Ottmans are myth as well

and we are zombies too.

You r using turkish flag but i m sure that you are not Turk

Ok ill act like a tourist so explain me who he is, wich battles he did won, where exactly he did live and where is his grave.... And tell me from where youre sources are...

 
Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı
[IMG">http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg">
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Posts: 168 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2006 at 13:16
Everyone who is debating something other than the topic at hand( i.e. DayI, Kemalist_Mehmet....) shut up! You guys are not contributing to the conversation at hand which happens to be the 5 Greatest Generals in history. Quit insulting each other and start being intellectual. You both have shown that you are not only unintelligible but ignorant. Quit the rants and get back on topic. You are turing people away from the discussion. For shame on you two! Have a nice day.
"In the absence of orders go find something and kill it!"

-Field MArshall Erwin Rommel
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Posts: 0 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2006 at 13:46

1.Mustafa Kemal

2.Ernesto Che GUEVARA

3.Fidel CASTRO

4.Jose MARTI

5.Simon BOLIVAR
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Posts: 4361 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2006 at 14:21
Originally posted by Hannibal Barca

Everyone who is debating something other than the topic at hand( i.e. DayI, Kemalist_Mehmet....) shut up! You guys are not contributing to the conversation at hand which happens to be the 5 Greatest Generals in history. Quit insulting each other and start being intellectual. You both have shown that you are not only unintelligible but ignorant. Quit the rants and get back on topic. You are turing people away from the discussion. For shame on you two! Have a nice day.


Indeed.

PS.: To whom it may regard.

There is actually a very good Turkish History Forum
where you can conduct your domestic debates without boring the rest of us, and even in Turkish.
Give my regards to Ihsan when you register.
If you should decide to continue posting here in AE, please do this in a civilised manner.

[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
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Posts: 1869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2006 at 14:30
I don't know which are the greatest, but here the ones I like most in no specific order:

● Attila the Hun

● Alexander the Great

● General Rommel

I don't intend to carry on arguing with you Mehmet.

But it is not mature to accuse people of being racist or imperialist even if they disagree with you about an irrelevant subject.

Edited by barish
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Immortal Guard
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Posts: 0 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jan-2006 at 16:36

  halid bin velid

  yavuz sultan selim

  baybars (defeated mongols at different times)

  eyh amil

  napolyon bonaparte
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BigL View Drop Down
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Posts: 817 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jan-2006 at 22:51

Come on Turk guy if your going to chose one of the many great turk generals dont choose an amautuer like Attila the hun.Where is his tactical greatness excpet the reputation he has in roman history.

The Huns were  a minor turk tribe and were pushed from steepe by a larger more powerful one.Abandoning the rich russian steepe for hungarian one which couldnt support many horses.

How bout Bayezid the thunderbolt,was he ottomans best?

 

 

 
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Posts: 1869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 00:35
Abandoning the rich Russian steppe?

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Posts: 817 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 01:02
rich in grass compared to hungary
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poirot View Drop Down
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Posts: 1838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 22:49
Originally posted by BigL

Come on Turk guy if your going to chose one of the many great turk generals dont choose an amautuer like Attila the hun.Where is his tactical greatness excpet the reputation he has in roman history.

The Huns were  a minor turk tribe and were pushed from steepe by a larger more powerful one.Abandoning the rich russian steepe for hungarian one which couldnt support many horses.

How bout Bayezid the thunderbolt,was he ottomans best? 

Bayezid the thunderbolt became Bayezid the deadbolt when he met Tamerlane

 

 

 



Edited by poirot
AAAAAAAAAA
"The crisis of yesterday is the joke of tomorrow.�   ~ HG Wells
           
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Laelius View Drop Down
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Posts: 354 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 23:51
Not quite, supposedly Bayezid was kept chained in a cage as a trophy and other accounts claim he was used as a foot stool whilst his wife was forced to dance at court.  These are doubtful since Timur's writers maintained he was well treated and Timur even mourned his death.
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Posts: 1838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2006 at 05:50

Originally posted by Laelius

Not quite, supposedly Bayezid was kept chained in a cage as a trophy and other accounts claim he was used as a foot stool whilst his wife was forced to dance at court.  These are doubtful since Timur's writers maintained he was well treated and Timur even mourned his death.

Timur's writers only glorify Timur.  Given Timur's temperment and record, the former outcome is more believable.
AAAAAAAAAA
"The crisis of yesterday is the joke of tomorrow.�   ~ HG Wells
           
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Posts: 1943 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2006 at 08:49

When deciding upon matters such as this, one's opinion is not only affected by national or ethnic biases, but also limited by the knowledge one has about the potential candidates. Turks for example, who have studied mostly Turkish history, will of course have a tendency to list more Turkish generals than say, Europeans whose knowledge centers mostly upon the military traditions of the West. The latter will post more European generals, while the Turks will post more Turkic generals, quite simply because it's these generals they know something about.

My own favourite generals in chronological order with reasons why; Epaminondas (for ending Spartan military supremacy), Alexander (for his Persian campaign), Pompeius Magnus (for his invincibility until Pharsalus), Julius Caesar (almost as good as Pompeius IMO), Trajan (one of the greatest commander Emperors), Stilicho (stemming the barbarian tide), Belisarius (for making Justinian great ), Heraclius (for saving the Byzantine Empire), Khalid ibn Walid (for turning any situation into victory), Robert Guiscard (for making the Normans invincible in southern Italy), Bohemond of Taranto (the former's son, crucial commander in the first crusade), Richard the Lionheart (for his military prowess and courage both in Europe and Outremer), Gustavus Adolphus (for his valour and effort in the Thirty Year's War), Frederick III of Prussia (for leading the Prussians to military supremacy), Napoleon Bonaparte (for obvious reasons, I hope) and lastly the Duke of Wellington, for his skill in fighting the former.

That'll do, and yes, I know it's not five.
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Posts: 2967 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 21:53
I also believe that a succesful military genius needs "some" luck on their side. Here is a list of some of the luckiest military masterminds

1. The Cid
2. Francisco Pizzao
3. Juan Ponce de Leon

Hmm it seems i consider some of the luckiest military leaders to be Spanish! lol
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Posts: 2200 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 22:56
1) Sun Tzu ( his book on Art of War is great!  most of the European leaders in the 17th, 18th, 19th centuries used this book including Napoleon)
2) Napoleon Bonaparte
3) General Zhukov
4) Joan of Arc
5) Emperor Augustus
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Posts: 168 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 23:37

Sun Tzu.....there is not even sufficient evidence to prove that he was a field commander. We know that he was a military advisor na dwas an excellent military strategist but his field achievements don't exist or there is no proof of them.

 

Augustus was never a military commander nor did he command in the field. The only victory that he was in overall command of was at Actium and there the Roman Navy was commanded by not Augustus but by Aggripa. Octavian never established himself as even a military commander. He was an excellent ruler, leader, and politician. Nothing else.
"In the absence of orders go find something and kill it!"

-Field MArshall Erwin Rommel
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Imperator Invictus View Drop Down
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Posts: 3151 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jan-2006 at 01:58
1) Tamerlane, Great Amir. He was the most feared man in history. Neither Attila, nor Genghis, nor Hitler imposed the terror that Tamerlane did. Very few men had the skill of military command and administration as his. He fought at every boundary edge of his empire and crushed all his enemies, dominated all the lands around his empire. He was one with whom you don't want to be at war.

2) Constantine, Emperor. He was the greatest Roman Conqueror. No other Roman had such an extensive career as he did on the field. From barbarians, to Praetorians, to Cataphracts, all were defeated by Constantinus Magnus.

3) Chinggiz Khan. He rallied a bunch of horsemen and kicked a lot of butt. Chinggiz' greatest strength was his ability to manage subordinates, something that many other conquerors could not achieve.

4) Napoleon. While he did not finish his career very gloriously, his 15 years in the field left us with great accounts of generalship on fields like Austerlitz and Dresden.

5) Li Shimin, Emperor. The Tang Empire was the work of this man, whose courage and military skill established foundations and power and whose administration carried China into a new golden age.

Those are my 5, but certainly not the only ones who can make a claim at the top. I judged those based on the magnitude of the accomplishment as an important element to mean "greatest." A lot of the list is also based on pure personal criteira. Also I think the greatest is not necesssarily also the best.


Edited by Imperator Invictus
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Loknar View Drop Down
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Posts: 666 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jan-2006 at 04:05

This is in no particular order

Yi Soon Shin

1. Size of conquest/campaign (3: in naval terms I suppose it isnt much)


2. Tactical Skill (10: at Pusan, even with Japanese costal guns firing at him and even against a numerically superior foe, he managed to loose no ships. With a fleet of 12 ships he managed to sink about 30 and render 100 other warships useless. In ALL of his campaigns he lost 0 ships and less than 500 troops compared to tens of thousands of Japanese)

3. Skill in grand strategy (10: He planned his moves methodically and was extremely careful at planning his offensives. He waged entire campaigns involving multiple battles, most of which were extremely well coordinated.)


4. Traditional vs. innovative tactics (8: The turtle ships ect ect he also was a pioneer and advocated extensive use of cannons. Korean cannons were some of the best in the world due to superior iron forging techniques. Though the turtle ships didnt last through the whole war they were interesting ships (I dont consider them ironclads though).
5. Charisma (8: He was one of those guys who built up a huge amount of renownthough at Myongyang, the other ships sat back and watched while his lone vessel held off the Japanese.


6. Political/Administrative Skill (8: He basically had autonomy in his area of operations due to the breakdown of the central government. He coordinated building projectes and training programs to build up his navy. When the war started Left Cholla, Right Cholla together possessed about 50 ships. He managed to build his fleet up to 300. After the disaster in which all but 10 Korean ships were lost he managed to build his fleet up to about 50 I believe.

Well thats my analysis of Yi Soon Shin.

Others that I care to mention

Kim Yu Shin

Genghis Kahn

Tammerlane

Count Barron von Tilly (I didnt see him on anybodys list!)



Edited by Loknar
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