Abortion: is it murder?

Originally posted by cahaya heraclius wrote: I'm sorry but I find it hard to have any sympathy for the woman who decides an abortion is the best option, if for example she got pregnant during a one night stand or whatever she then has a responsibility whether she likes it or not to that child. but to get pregnant.. is it only one party involved? i dont think so... And why must be only the woman is to be blamed and being critisized on this issue? Man should be responsibled on wht he had done too... not by running away when he knows the girl he slept or had sex or whtever happened b4..is getting pregnant his own child... why the society must be that bias?

 There isnt only 1 party involved in the beginning of pregnancy, but there can only be 1 party involved in the ending of that pregnancy.

 The decision to abort can be purely the womans, the man can rant and rave to her about keeping the child but if the woman wants to abort she can regardless of what the father thinks. AFAIK that is the situation certainly in the UK, its gotten to the point here where teenage girls below 16 who get pregnant can get an abortion without even informing her parents nevermind the father.

 It may well be that the father is just another kid who is totally naive or ignorant of his own responsibilities, but there can be times when the father is fully aware of his responsibilities but is excluded anyway and the abortion takes place. Not even getting a chance to have a say on whether or not his child lives or dies.

 Say for example an adult woman accidently gets pregnant (for whatever reason) to her husband/boyfriend, he doesnt know she is pregnant she can then organise a date for an abortion and have it done without letting him know, the fact the child is as much his flesh and blood as hers doesnt seem to come into the equation. There are in this scenario 3 people directly involved.

 The 1st the unborn child is about to be aborted, the 2nd the woman doesnt even have to include the 3rd person the man and even if he was involved he would be pretty much powerless to stop his partner from aborting if it is what she wanted AFAIK.

 Accident or not a life has been created, it should not be discarded because it is an unexpected inconveniance or yet another financial burden.

 Does the unborn child not have the right to exist like anybody?

 Is it so difficult to use a condom or a pill these days? if you dont want a baby dont have sex without using a condom or the pill, there is no reason why an unborn child should have to pay for somebodys elses irresponsible behaviour IMO.

 I dont think I am being unreasonable there.

Edited by Heraclius

A totally bias opinion.... from hera...

pregnancy is only happened to a woman (well not 100% accurate nowadays..  see www.malepregnancy.com.. but tht's out of question)

still.... it is not woman fault alone if she get pregnant... in ur point hera.. u deny any circumstances of woman to have a right in order to proceed with abortions.... which is same with my opinion.. but only i am not agree to put all the blame on woman when the time the man refuse to take the responsibility.... which is differ with your point of view..

Edited by cahaya

then a man should forget to have a sex with woman if they reluctant to carry the responsibility if there's possibility of pregnancy... so women wont be blamed by people if she had to do abortion.. cos accident does happen...

The truth is that abortions are good for society. They keep the number of children in foster care from rising. You can bash the irresponsible parents all you want, but who really suffers in a situation like that? The child.

I don't think that a lump of cells is an intelligent life form. Therefore, I repect the woman's right to govern her own body. The government has no right tellinga  woman how to manage her body.

Abortion is sa,d but if a pregnancy is going to ruin the parent' s lives and leave the child in a bad home, then I don't think that aborting a fetus is a crime.

I don't approve of aborting an intelligent and well developed life....but i ahve no issue wtiha a woman doing it after conception or while teh baby is still a bunch of under-developed lump of cells.

I don't approve of late term abortions though. The baby is too well developed and it doesn't take 6 months to decide you want an abortion


Edited by Illuminati

 Illuminati I dont know about you, but i'd prefer to take my chances in and out of foster care rather than never exist at all. If I had had a choice in my own existance of course, of course I nor any other person had a choice they were made for us, but I think its better that you have the chance to live than not at all.

 A child suffers by being sent into foster care, you say that as if it is worse than not existing at all. You dont know how good or bad a life somebody is going to have until they live it, assuming the worst before the child has even been born is absurd. Its not ideal, but then neither is abortion I believe being put in foster care is preferable than being aborted.

 Theres always adoption, a woman can have a child and decide she cannot cope with that child (for whatever reason) so she can give he/she up for adoption and the child may or may not be adopted by somebody within a short time and the child will not know any different. Of course theres a million examples of kids spending years waiting to be chosen by a family and given a better life.

 However plenty of people are born into families stricken by poverty or other problems and have absolutely everything against them, yet they can still turn out to be good standing members of society who live good full happy lives.

 Are we going to stop people having children because they are certain to face adversity now? after all they will undoubtedly suffer something from the circumstances they are born into. Life is not easy, but people still deserve the right to exist and live their lives and make the best of whatever situation fate has them born into.

 Thankfully I was born into a warm and loving family, that wont happen for everybody, but does that mean every child who suffers adversity from the start turns out badly or depressed or wishes he/she was dead? I mean you get people who were abused as children by their parents yet as adults are happy and have families of their own and are living.

 So suffering problems early on in life doesnt mean it'd of just been better if you had been aborted.

Edited by Heraclius

Originally posted by Maju Originally posted by arch.buff ... we are asking ourselves the wrong question in "Is it really a human?" whereas we should rather be asking "Is it going to retain life?". the simple answer to this question is yes. What do you eat? I'm sure you don't eat minerals and unless you are Jainist saint that lives only on fruit you surely eat living criatures whose life you kill in order to survive. The question is not about life but about humanity, most people accept killing non-human criatures in order to survive as normal, not even subject to any type of ethical questioning.

 

-So what you are saying is that a cows life value is the same as a humans? So what would you have us eat? The difference is that we as humans have souls and animals do not. I doubt anyone here on this forum would say that they would let their child starve to death before killing and feeding a chicken to them. Why? because a human life is rightfully held in higher regard then an animals. Now Im not saying an animals life isnt important. For instance, your family pet is probably pretty important  to you, and in some homes is regared as just another one of the family but if the chose had to be made between killing rover and one of the other family members, there is a very definant reason why a human life would never be chosen.....so please dont put human life and animal life on the same level.

It seems youve misinterpreted my post. The point I was trying to make is that its not so much "Is it at the stage where its considered human", rather the point should be "It is eventually going to be human no matter what stage its in". You just misinterpreted my post

Doesnt it seem unfair that the man has no say for a life he has created. Is the child any more the womans than the mans? I totally agree that the man should take responsibility for the child after it is born, even if only by child support.

Originally posted by arch.buff It seems youve misinterpreted my post. The point I was trying to make is that its not so much "Is it at the stage where its considered human", rather the point should be "It is eventually going to be human no matter what stage its in". You just misinterpreted my post

Not necessarily: natural miscarriages happen, infant mortality happens. Also, with that logic of you, you should not use contraceptives nor even allow menstruation to happen as every reproductive cell has the potential of becoming a whole human being if the process is fullfilled according to its purpose. That's nonsense: a bunch of cells is not any human being,no matter how much human potential they may have.

I think abortion in the first three months should be 100% free and payed by the state as any other health care, including the psychological advisor. Furthermore in order to save in costs and traumas, the day-after pill should be easily available.

Originally posted by arch.buff Doesnt it seem unfair that the man has no say for a life he has created. Is the child any more the womans than the mans? I totally agree that the man should take responsibility for the child after it is born, even if only by child support.

I don't know why you have a love relationship, maybe to have kids and reproduce your genetic code and your mentality, but I do for mere love towards my partner. Kids are not any priority in my life and I don't plan to use my partner to whom I owe total alliance to fulfill my own egoistic desires (at least I will try not to do it).

I know that bringing a kid to life, breastfeeding it and caring for him in the early years, no matter how compromised I am, is mostly a mother's responsability. Therefore and out of respect for such a sacred resonsability I can't discuss her decissions in this matter. If there's an abortion the emotional trauma is going to be for her, if there is a full pregnancy,birth and child bearing is also going to be largely her problem. We just put the sperm and can perfectly be totally out of the rest of the process, as happens in many animal species and quite often among humans as well. So it is something that is at least 90% the mother's responsability, I would say that 100%.

In this issue men can be evil and think only in our own desires and ideas or be good and think only in our companion's needs and the difficult responsability that she is carrying whatever her decission. This is not like what film are we seeing tonight or who is taking care of the laundry, matters that can be wholly shared. In this case the role of the male is small and that of the woman is huge. We are no birds that can alternate the incubation of the eggs: we are mammals and that puts most of the parental responsability in the female side.