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Degredado
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Topic: Origin of etymology of countries Posted: 26-Aug-2004 at 11:59 |
Originally posted by Catn
Portugal
From Portucalense County and Portucalense from Porto (Port), the main city in North Portugal (the only part free from Muslims). |
More precisely, the evolution is Portus Cale (Port Cale - don't ask me what Cale means, but it's the modern city of Gaia), then Portucale, and then Portugal. The name kind of got stuck to the region lying between the Douro and Minho rivers after Vimara Peres conquered the place in the ninth century. It was indeed the most important city of the region (Braga at the time was in shambles, having been wrecked by those evil, evil, evil Moors)
As for Brasil, the name does come from the plant pau-brasil (it was initially called Terra da Vera Cruz). On the other hand, the word brasil - as one teacher told me many years ago - comes from brasas, which suggests a reddish coloring. And as you know, pau-brasil was used to make dyes.
Edited by Degredado
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Posted: 03-Sep-2004 at 03:45 |
Degredado, the bit Cale could derive from Galaecia. After all, the Condado Portucalensis refered to the region of modern Portugal from the Douro/Duero river northwards, which was also part of the Roman division of Galaecia together with modern Galicia.Of course I'm only speculating.
Edited by Coroccota
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Posted: 03-Sep-2004 at 04:17 |
The Iberian peninsula has had several names. In ancient Greek sources it was first called Keltik, and then Iberia.
The etimology of the name Iberia might be found in the Basque word Iber, which means river. This might be the same term used by the Eastern and South Eastern tribes, the Iberians. Also, Schulten suggested that the voice Iberia probably derived from the Phoenician word I-shephan-im, meaning "the island or coast of rabbits".
The Greeks also called Hesperia to the lands West of Hellas (Italy, Southern France, and Spain and Portugal), as these lands lied in the ends of the West... or the known World. The voice Hesperia derives from a Greek word meaning "where the sun sets".
Finally, the Romans (or was it the Carthaginians first?) called it Hispania.
The etimology of the voice Hispania is not clear either. The Classic sources speculate that, after noticing that the Greeks clearly used the names of Hiberia and Hesperia, the name Hispania was derived from a hero. (?)
Modern scientists have proposed an autoctonous pre-roman Indoeuropean (proto, Ur) origin of the word, which would mean "the North".
Sources:
Prof. D. Ramn Menndez Pidal (Philologist and Historian)
Prof. D. Valentn Cabrero Diguez (Geographist)
Edited by Coroccota
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Posted: 03-Sep-2004 at 04:33 |
The etimology of other names in the Iberian peninsula:
- Castilla: land of castles.
- Catalunya: land of castle dwellers (not as clear as the previous).
- Len: derived from Legio VII, not from "lion" as many wrongly believe (the coat of arms is a lion).
- Galicia: Gallaecia, a Roman divison; same origins as Gallatia, Gaul, etc.
- Andalucia: from Arabic Al-Andalus; some argue that the origin of this Arabic word is in the word Vandal, a barbarian Germanic tribe which sacked the Southern lands of Hispania and then crossed to Northern Africa. There are other speculations.
Also, on the "other part" of the Pyrinees, Occitnia (modern Southern France, comprising Gascony, Languedoc, Provence, Auvergne), derives from the "Pais d'c". c is the word used for "yes" in the Occitan languages.
Languedoc, French form of Lengadoc, meaning the language of c.
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Posted: 03-Sep-2004 at 13:16 |
In Spain also:
- Extremadura (where my hometown is): "extreme land", the borderland between Christian and Moors. There is also an "Estremadura" in Portugal and I think the origin is the same.
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Chono
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Posted: 03-Sep-2004 at 13:46 |
Origin of word "mongol"... no one is sure. Versions vary from "stupid" to "eternal fireplace". My chemistry teacher once theorized it meant "silver" . All are valid opinions.
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ArmenianSurvival
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Posted: 04-Sep-2004 at 17:31 |
Armenians began with groups of Caucasus and Araratian tribes combining because of a commonality in culture. Some of these tribes were the Hayasi and the Armens. Armenians call themselves 'Hai', meaning 'Armenian' in our language. The rest of the world knows us as Armenians because the Greeks were familiar with the Armen tribes, and called us Armens.
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Posted: 04-Sep-2004 at 19:12 |
Originally posted by Catn
In Spain also/P] - Extremadura (where my hometown is): "extreme land", the borderland between Christian and Moors. There is also an "Estremadura" in Portugal and I think the origin is the same. |
Right, and if memory serves all border lands in Hispania during the ages of the Reconquista have been called "extremadura" at one point or another. I've read Southern Aragon refered to as the Aragonese "extremadura" in some history books, and modern Extremadura would be the Leonese "extremadura", and modern Estremadura would be the Portuguese "extremadura".
By the way, Extremadura means literally "extreme or extremely hard or harsh".
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 04-Sep-2004 at 23:04 |
Koreans sometimes call themselves the Baedal...Meaning "Where the Ship docks". What this means I don't know.
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I/eye
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Posted: 04-Sep-2004 at 23:34 |
no, Baedal means "mountain of light" and it represents the Baekdu mountain.
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 04-Sep-2004 at 23:48 |
It does?....I don't know...I'm wrong once again....sigh...
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demon
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Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 07:52 |
Baedal()- Barkdal()- bark un ddang( )
So eye has a point.
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I/eye
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Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 09:45 |
maybe you should have wrote english meaning too..
there are many theories.. btw..
Demon has looked at the Korean writing and got to "Bright Land".
you can also look at the Chinese writing and get to Bright land, Bright Mountain, Birch(the tree that grows well in the sun)
some linguist has found that all of those come from Bright Mountain
Edited by I/eye
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Sharrukin
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Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 11:59 |
The Franci don't come into political notice by the Roman writiers until the early 3rd century AD. It was originally the name of a confederation of northwestern Germanic tribes including the Bructeri, Chamavi, Amsivarii, and Chatti. Now, it seems more logical to refer to them as "the Free", in distinction with another confederation of Germanic tribe to their south, called the Alemanni, which meant "all Men", which is where such languages as French and Spanish get their name for modern Germany.
Greek Aiguptos comes from Egyptian Hikuptah, one of the ancient names of the traditional capital of dynastic Egypt, Memphis. Hikuptah meant "the temple of the ka (spirit or genius) of Ptah". Ptah was the titular deity of Memphis, just as Amon was the titular deity of Egyptian Thebes (or Diospolis magna), and Horus was the titular deity of Hieraconpolis, etc.
The district of Memphis was originally called Ineb Hedj the "White Wall" which was built to protect the city from the inundation of the Nile. The Greek name Memphis was derived from the Coptic Menfe which itself was a development of the name of the pyramid of Pepi I, called Mennufer at Saqqara which was extended to the whole of Memphis.
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 13:30 |
Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival
Armenians began with groups of Caucasus and Araratian tribes combining because of a commonality in culture. Some of these tribes were the Hayasi and the Armens. Armenians call themselves 'Hai', meaning 'Armenian' in our language. The rest of the world knows us as Armenians because the Greeks were familiar with the Armen tribes, and called us Armens. |
Encyclopaedia Britannica: Armenians: The Hayk, as the Armenians name themselves (the term Armenian is probably the result of a Persian confusion of them with the Aramaeans) can it be so?
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Sharrukin
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Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 08:59 |
As a matter of fact the Greeks and Persians knew the Armenians as distinct from the "Araratians" (i.e. Urarteans). The Armenians lived to the north of Lake Van while the Urartians (which the Greeks called Alarodians) lived to the south of the lake. In Herodotus' enumeration of the tributary districts of Darius I, the Armenians were in the "Thirteenth" nomos, while the "Matienians, Saspires, and Alarodians" were in the "Eighteenth". In the "Catalog" of peoples serving the Persian army under Xerxes I, Herodotus mentions all four peoples serving under different commanders. Of these four, only the Armenians are described as having a foreign origin.
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BattleGlory
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Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 21:54 |
Mauk: Where are you from? I live in Maine too. I'm from Westbrook.
The name Canada comes from the Huron-Iroquois word Kanata, which means village or settlement. The term was used to describe Stadacona (the current site of Quebec city) by two Amerindians who accompanied Jacques Cartier on his 1535 return voyage from France. |
Don't lie! We all know that some guy in Ancient History pulled letters out of a hat and this was the result: "C, eh? N, eh? D, eh?"
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ArmenianSurvival
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Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 22:50 |
Originally posted by Sharrukin
As a matter of fact the Greeks and Persians knew the Armenians as distinct from the "Araratians" (i.e. Urarteans). The Armenians lived to the north of Lake Van while the Urartians (which the Greeks called Alarodians) lived to the south of the lake. In Herodotus' enumeration of the tributary districts of Darius I, the Armenians were in the "Thirteenth" nomos, while the "Matienians, Saspires, and Alarodians" were in the "Eighteenth". In the "Catalog" of peoples serving the Persian army under Xerxes I, Herodotus mentions all four peoples serving under different commanders. Of these four, only the Armenians are described as having a foreign origin. |
Yes, you are right, the Armenians and Urartians were not related, and were not the same people. Culturally and linguistically we were different. But, when Assyria was destroying the Urartian kingdoms and handed them their eventual downfall, many Urartians assimilated into Armenian culture. Many people say we are the descendents of Urartians, even though we are culturally and linguistically different. Kind of like Romans and modern-day Italians. And there were other small kingdoms in the plains of Ararat and the Caucasus and they had a commonality in culture and eventually came together to form a distinct Armenian culture. Some of these tribes were known as Hayasa, Armens, and Nairi. We call ourselves Hai, because of Hayasas, the rest of the world knows us as Armenians because of the Armens, and Nairi is a common girls name and the name of many Armenian cities. It was the combination of these tribes because of a commonality in culture. We are descendents of Urartians, and you are right in saying that Armenians and Urartians were different because they were.
-Cyrus- "Encyclopaedia Britannica: Armenians: The Hayk, as the Armenians name themselves (the term Armenian is probably the result of a Persian confusion of them with the Aramaeans) can it be so?"... Its very possible, because one of the first mentions of Armenians in the foreign world was made by Darius when he conquered Armenia in the 6th century B.C. But, it would make more sense that they called us Armenians because of the Armen tribe, because there was such a tribe called Armen. Plus, the Greeks and other cultures called us something similar to 'Armen', and i dont think all of them thought we were Aramaeans.
-By approximately 2100 BC, a prototype of the first Armenian state was founded. Even now, Armenians call themselves Hai (pronounced high), and their country - Haik or Haiastan, in honor of Haik. The Hittite scripts also mention a Haiasa country. Meanwhile, the Assyrian cuneiform writings designate Armenia as Urartu (Arartu), which means Ararat. The Old Testament also associates Armenia with the Mount Ararat (the Kingdom of Ararat). In ancient times, Armenia was equally associated with the rivers Tigris, Euphrates, Araks and Kura. That is why the neighboring Assyrians also called Armenia, Nairi, standing for Riverland, Country of Rivers. Haik, once thought to be just a hero of an epic legend, is presently accepted by some researches as an actual chieftain of Armens in the 3rd millennium BC.
source
Edited by ArmenianSurvival
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Sharrukin
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Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 22:16 |
But, when Assyria was destroying the Urartian kingdoms and handed them their eventual downfall, many Urartians assimilated into Armenian culture. |
The Assyrians may have invaded Urartian lands, and defeated Urartian armies, but of Urartean lands, only Musasir became subject to Assyria. The Urartean Empire, itself, however, didn't fall to the Assyrians, but rather was first weakened by the Cimmerians in 714 BC and fell to the Medes by about 590 BC. Sometime between 590 and 520 BC, the Armenians became a distinct ethnos. Prior to 520 BC, there is no indication either in Assyrian or Urartean records of a people known either as Hayk or Armens, to the north of Lake Van, and we do have a very detailed geography of place-names north of Lake Van. It is only about 520 BC when Darius I first mentions Armina as a "land" in one of his inscriptions.
And there were other small kingdoms in the plains of Ararat and the Caucasus and they had a commonality in culture and eventually came together to form a distinct Armenian culture. Some of these tribes were known as Hayasa, Armens, and Nairi. We call ourselves Hai, because of Hayasas, the rest of the world knows us as Armenians because of the Armens, and Nairi is a common girls name and the name of many Armenian cities. It was the combination of these tribes because of a commonality in culture. |
Hmmm. "Armens" don't figure in the geography of the region until sometime between 590 and 520 BC. Prior to this we do have the place-name Urime of the Assyrian inscriptions, but it was located in a region somewhere between the Euphrates and Urartu within a larger region called Shupria. "Hayasa" was definitely Bronze Age (otherwise known as Azzi), but during that time, was rather westward of the earliest Armenia, being one of the eastern neighbors of the Hittites. The name does not figure in any Urartean, Assyrian, or classical geography or ethnography. "Nairi" was the name of the land and people which gave rise to the Urarteans and this ethnos was located to the south of Lake Van. Of the three names, Hayasa and Nairi were probably of Hurrian origin.
We are descendents of Urartians, and you are right in saying that Armenians and Urartians were different because they were. |
It is probably more accurate in saying that there is a strain of Armenians descendent from the Urartians. By about the 1st century BC, Tigranes the Great, had politically unified the lands north and south of Lake Van to at least begin the assimilation of the Urarteans/Alarodians.
By approximately 2100 BC, a prototype of the first Armenian state was founded. Even now, Armenians call themselves Hai (pronounced high), and their country - Haik or Haiastan, in honor of Haik. |
We really don't know when the Hayasa Kingdom began. All we really know is that the Hittites gain diplomatic relations with it in the 14th century BC. What we do know of Hayasan culture was that they practiced polygamy, which was repulsive to the Hittites, and that their names (at least the names of their kings) were probably not Indo-European.
Meanwhile, the Assyrian cuneiform writings designate Armenia as Urartu (Arartu), which means Ararat. The Old Testament also associates Armenia with the Mount Ararat (the Kingdom of Ararat). |
It is more accurate in saying that the Assyrian inscriptions designated southern Armenia (i.e. the region south of Lake Van) as Urartu. Northern Armenia was a collection of various kingdoms including Diauekhi, Abilianikhi, Etiukhi, Eriakhi, and Zabakhi, among others. The "Ararat" of the Bible comes from the Assyrian name "Urartu" which means "mountain-land". The Urartean kings didn't call their country Urartu, but rather either Nairi or Biainili (from which we got the present name of "Van" for the name of the lake.) Sometimes we refer to the Urartian Kingdom as either the Kingdom of Van, or the Vannic Kingdom.
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lars573
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Posted: 14-Sep-2004 at 13:19 |
America
In the early 16th century an italian navigator Amerigo Vespucci. He was the first to realize that Columbus hadn't reached the asia. Published a seris of letters stating this idea so the contenents were named after him. Columbus thought that Cuba was Sumatra.
Canada
When Jacques Cartiers explored up the St. Lawernce river in the 1520's he made contact with the native peoples who lived along the river, the Hurons, the Iriquoi confederacy, the Ottawa's, and the Algonquin. One of these peoples name for village or settlement was Kanata which Cartier mistook for nation or the whole area and mispronounced as Canada
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