Iranian Languages

Hurrian is a very old language, even proabably older than proto-Indo-European language, for example I had mentioned in another thread that the proto-IE word *bhurgh (tower) has a Hurro-Urartian origin, so Middle Persian burg, Armenian burgn and proto-Germanic *burg come from this word, of course similar words can be seen in the Semitic languages too, like Aramaic burgin and Arabic burj.

Kurds lived in region where ancient Gutians, who were probably a Germanic people, lived, I had said that there was no "L" sound in the old Iranian languages, so it has been usually changed to "R", for example Latin gelu (Cold) has been changed to English Cold (g->k) and Persian/Kurdish Sard (g->s & l->r).

The Germanic word for head is "Kulla" (g->k), the Persian word is "Sar" (g->s & l->r) but "Kalle" is also used (Kula means hat), that is really interesting that the Kurdish word is "Kura" (just l->r), that is similar to Persian "Kura" which means "colt" (just l->r) and of course "child" (Germanic Kult), like Kurdish "Kur".

Hi guys, i am self a Northern Zaza from Dêrsim and have found this forum by Google. I have collected in the last years a lot of knowledge about Iranian langauges. 

My English is not very vell, so there can come mistakes in my postings.

Some corrections and facts:

1. Parthian was not a persian dialect. It was a northerwest-iranian language (you can notice this on the louds) as Median, Kurdish, Zazaki, Balochi and Caspian while Middle Persian (Pahlavi) was  classifical Southwestiranian as Old Persian and New Persian.

Look to this cards of Prof. Dr. Jost Gippert:

http://zazaki.de/deutsch/stammbaumiranischesprachen-geradlinig.htm

http://zazaki.de/deutsch/stammbaumiranischesprachen-querbeziehung.htm

2. Such a language as "Gorani" doesn't exist in fact. Gorani is only a synonym for a tribe. In the western linguistic they use "Gorani" for the "Hewrami" language. In Kurdistan only Kelhuri- and Leki-Speakers call their language "Gorani".

The right names of this languages are "Southern Kurdish" and "Hewrami".

Dialects of Southern Kurdish:

• Kelhurî, Kolyai, Kirmanshahi, Garrusi, Sanjabi, Malekshahi, Bayray, Kordali
• Leki, Biranavendî, Kurdshûlî (in Fars), Shêx Bizinî (in der Türkei, vor allem um Ankara), Feylî (in Ilam), Silaxûrî und Xacevendî (in Mazandaran)

3. Esm in Persian comes from Arabic "ism", look to:

http://www.nisanyansozluk.com/?k=isim

The pure arian word for "name" in in Persian "nâm".

Persian tends to convert i-louds into e (in Kurdish and Zazaki: ê).

4. It is true, that Kurdish observed many Southwest Iranian influences while Zazaki conserved more Northwestiranian louds. Example:

"dil" in Kurdish is from Southwestiranian:

Avesta: zerdeye, Parthian: zird, Middle Persian: dil, Old Persian: *drd

Its a southwest-process to convert the Old Iranian "z"-louds into "d".

So "dest" in all northwestern languages is Persian too, Avesta: zeste, Old Persian: deste.

Other example for this z-d-seperation:

Avesta: zân-, Old Persian: dân- "to know"

Avesta zerenye, Old Persian derenye "gold"

Avesta "ezêm", Old Persian "edem" "I [pronome]"

And more....

There are also other Southwestiranian examples for Kurdish, as example the numbers "deh" and "sê" are loaned, the pure Northwestiranian words are in Zazaki: des and hîrê.

Parthian: hrê, Middle Persian: sî, Avesta 0ri, Old Persian: chî

Parthian: des, Middle Persian: deh, Avesta: dese, Old Persian: de0e

Avesta represents in 99% of the cases the Proto-Iranian louds, as example was "dese" in Sanskrit with "s" too.

5. "bav, bavik" in Kurdish, "bab, baba" in Zazaki and "baba" in Persian share the same root:

Pahlavi archaic form "pâpek"

"kech" in Kurdish, "keyna" in Zazaki, "kenechal" in Hewrami come from:

Avesta, Sanskrit: kenyâ, Pahlavi "kenîzek".

Source: Paul Horn

The similiraty with Turkish "kiz" is only accident. Such accidents can happen. 

Turkish "baba" is directly loaned from Persian.

Do you have any questions about Zazaki?

No no Bira, the card of Jost Gippert confirms only your sight, that the connection between Persian and Kurdish is older as expected. Lets look to the card better:

http://zazaki.de/deutsch/stammbaumiranischesprachen-geradlinig.htm

From the above sight:

The black line goes in Kurdish 1. first to Middle Persian 2. then it contacts with Old Persian 3. then with Southwest-Iranian and 4. then it contacts with the line of Northwestiranian.

"Az" in Persian means "from" (is in relation with Kurdish ji), Persian did lost the Pronome for "ez" and use today "man" (Kurdish alphabet: men), which comes from the Obliquus form "my, mine". Like in Sorani, where they use "min" for "I".