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Spread of English in the world

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Poll Question: English has spread thanks to United States?
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21 [47.73%]
23 [52.27%]
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Spread of English in the world
    Posted: 23-Nov-2007 at 21:47
Originally posted by pinguin

 
I don't agree is the power of the U.S. (America=Western Hemisphere Wink) the factor of spreading english, but rather convenience. Let's see some factors:
 


Penguin (it's not a typo, my spell check won't allow how you spell your name),

I whole heartedly defend your right to advance your argument (however mistaken it may sometimes be). Nevertheless I implore you to not advance falsehoods as fact.  In this case I am refering to you saying: (America=Western Hemisphere Wink).

While in Spanish the word "Amrica" means "Western Hemisphere," that is simply not the case in the English language. Unequivocally, the English word "America" refers to the the United States of America; be it in American English, British English, Jamaican English, Australian English etc.  The translation of the Spanish term "Amrica" would be "the Americas." 
Think of it akin to simptico not meaning sympathetic." it's a common misconception in Latin America so don't get too down on yourself.

I don't mean to get away from the thread's topic I just wanted to correct your inaccurate statement.


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  Quote WolfHound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2007 at 03:19
Hmm I said no because I believe the British Empire is primarily why English is so widely spoken.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2007 at 03:31
Originally posted by JudahMacabee15

...
Penguin (it's not a typo, my spell check won't allow how you spell your name),

I whole heartedly defend your right to advance your argument (however mistaken it may sometimes be). Nevertheless I implore you to not advance falsehoods as fact.  In this case I am refering to you saying: (America=Western Hemisphere Wink).

While in Spanish the word "Amrica" means "Western Hemisphere," that is simply not the case in the English language. Unequivocally, the English word "America" refers to the the United States of America; be it in American English, British English, Jamaican English, Australian English etc.  The translation of the Spanish term "Amrica" would be "the Americas." 
Think of it akin to simptico not meaning sympathetic." it's a common misconception in Latin America so don't get too down on yourself.

I don't mean to get away from the thread's topic I just wanted to correct your inaccurate statement.


 
No matter what America is meant in English. America is the name of South America... That was the part of the world that received that name first.
 
Yes, Latinos could call U.S. people "Americans" as a defference and good manner, but will never accept that appropiation. And I am a Latino.
 
 
 
 
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  Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2007 at 03:52
Originally posted by pinguin

Originally posted by JudahMacabee15

...Penguin (it's not a typo, my spell check won't allow how you spell your name),I whole heartedly defend your right to advance your argument (however mistaken it may sometimes be). Nevertheless I implore you to not advance falsehoods as fact. In this case I am refering to you saying: (America=Western Hemisphere Wink).While in Spanish the word "Amrica" means "Western Hemisphere," that is simply not the case in the English language. Unequivocally, the English word "America" refers to the the United States of America; be it in American English, British English, Jamaican English, Australian English etc. The translation of the Spanish term "Amrica" would be "the Americas." Think of it akin to simptico not meaning sympathetic." it's a common misconception in Latin America so don't get too down on yourself. I don't mean to get away from the thread's topic I just wanted to correct your inaccurate statement.


No matter what America is meant in English. America is the name of South America... That was the part of the world that received that name first.


Yes, Latinos could call U.S. people "Americans" as a defference and good manner, but will never accept that appropiation. And I am a Latino.






Could you provide a source that says that the name America was first given to South America, Pinguin? Columbus didn't make it to South America until 1498 in 1492 he made landfall at an island he called San Salvador (later it became one of the Bahama Islands. The Bahamas, for those who lack a knowledge of geography, as just east of Florida.

Edited by King John - 01-Dec-2007 at 03:53
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  Quote longshanks31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2007 at 10:46
Theres a theory that america is named after a welsh man, named john amerik (spelling ?) its probably just a baseless claim by the welsh, and ive no idea what proof there is.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2007 at 10:52
From: http://geography.about.com/cs/historicalgeog/a/amerigo.htm
 

Amerigo Vespucci

Aug 22 2007

The Explorer Amerigo Vespucci For Whom America Was Named

Amerigo Vespucci will long be remembered as the man America was named after but who was this inconsequential explorer and how did he get his name on two continents?

Vespucci was born in 1454 to a prominent family in Florence, Italy. As a young man he read widely and collected books and maps. He began working for local bankers and was sent to Spain in 1492 to look after his employer's business interests.

While in Spain, Amerigo Vespucci began working on ships and ultimately went on his first expedition as a navigator in 1499. This expedition reached the mouth of the Amazon River and explored the coast of South America. Vespucci was able to calculate how far west he had traveled by observing the conjunction of Mars and the Moon.

On his second voyage in 1501, Amerigo Vespucci sailed under the Portuguese flag. After leaving Lisbon, it took Vespucci 64 days to cross the Atlantic Ocean due to light winds. His ships followed the South American coast to within 400 miles of the southern tip, Tierra del Fuego.

While on this voyage, Vespucci wrote two letters to a friend in Europe. He described his travels and was the first to identify the New World of North and South America as separate from Asia. (Until he died, Columbus thought he had reached Asia.)

Amerigo Vespucci also described the culture of the indigenous people, and focused on their diet, religion, and what made these letters very popular - their sexual, marriage, and childbirth practices. The letters were published in many languages and were distributed across Europe (they were a much better seller than Columbus' own diaries).

Amerigo Vespucci was named Pilot Major of Spain in 1508. Vespucci was proud of this accomplishments, "I was more skillful than all the shipmates of the whole world." Vespucci's third voyage to the New World was his last for he contracted malaria and died in Spain in 1512 at the age of 58.

Martin Waldseemuller

The German clergyman-scholar Martin Waldseemuller liked to make up names. He even created his own last name by combining words for "wood," "lake," and "mill." Waldseemuller was working on a contemporary world map, based on the Greek geography of Ptolemy, and he had read of Vespucci's travels and knew that the New World was indeed two continents.

In honor of Vespucci's discovery of the new forth portion of the world, Waldseemuller printed a wood block map (called "Carta Mariana") with the name "America" spread across the southern continent of the New World. Waldseemuller printed and sold a thousand copies of the map across Europe.

Within a few years, Waldseemuller changed his mind about the name for the New World but it was too late. The name America had stuck. The power of the printed word was too powerful to take back. Gerardus Mercator's world map of 1538 was the first to include North America and South America. Thus, continents named for a Italian navigator would live on forever.

Waldseemuller's map with the name America on it.
 
 
 
Full map. The part named America is actually South America.
 


Edited by pinguin - 01-Dec-2007 at 10:53
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  Quote Illirac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2007 at 15:50
Originally posted by Illirac

no...but the English controled half of the world and America today is not that powerful...
 
 
They are the sole superpower of the world today, not just militarily but also financially and culturally.
[/QUOTE]
 
I'm sorry to post this only now but before I could not...no, USA is not a superpower? start a war against Russia or China???, The world would be grind dowen to dust...as long as other countries have nukes, USA will never be a superpower...
For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.
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  Quote Illirac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2007 at 15:50
Originally posted by Illirac

Originally posted by Illirac

no...but the English controled half of the world and America today is not that powerful...
 
  
They are the sole superpower of the world today, not just militarily but also financially and culturally.
[/QUOTE]
 
I'm sorry to post this only now but before I could not...no, USA is not a superpower? start a war against Russia or China???, The world would be grind dowen to dust...as long as other countries have nukes, USA will never be a superpower...
For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.
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  Quote Illirac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2007 at 15:53
grrrr....2 times posted the same thing....Confused
In ex british colonies is spoken english, yes?;
how is possible that America has more influence in the Commonwealth insted of Great Britan?


Edited by Illirac - 01-Dec-2007 at 15:53
For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 09:13

[/QUOTE]
 
No matter what America is meant in English. America is the name of South America... That was the part of the world that received that name first.
 
Yes, Latinos could call U.S. people "Americans" as a defference and good manner, but will never accept that appropiation. And I am a Latino.
 
[/QUOTE]


Penguin:

I don't understand your logic.  It doesn't matter which part of the world was named America first. The word just doesn't mean the same thing in English as it does in Spanish. Your English is not perfect so I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but when you use the term incorrectly it only leads to obfuscation.

Moreover, first you said "(America=Western Hemisphere Wink)," now you say "America is the name of South America." Which one is it? Regardless, your second statement is incorrect in both Spanish and English. Guatamalans think of their country as part of "Amrica (the Spanish term)," as do Cubans (ex: Jos Mart's Nuestra Amrica). Neither of these two countries are in South America.

Now on to your last bit where you somewhat nonsensically said Latinos shouldn't call people from the United States "Americans" (at least I think that's what you said).  there are many Americans who are Latino (about 12.5% of the population), being Latino and being a "U.S. person," as you stated, are not mutually exclusive.

I am taking the time to explain intricacies of the English language that will solely help your posting as it will be clearer what you are referring to. Please use the English language correctly, no matter what your personal thoughts of certain words are. Cachai?
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 11:17
The rise of English has soared since computer technology. After WWII Winston Churchill gave a lecture about the rising power of English that has proved correct, but at the time he was attacked by members of his own party as being one-eyed and of putting British interests above that of other countries. They said nobody really knew how things would go so far as language was concerned. There was some talk of using Esperanto as an international language, the whole thing of making up another language in place of others seems so dumb now. English already is bits and pieces of other languages from yonks ago and so what, it communicates!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 11:56
Originally posted by JudahMacabee15


...
Please use the English language correctly, no matter what your personal thoughts of certain words are. Cachai?
 
LOLLOLLOL
 
Oh Jesus! Another Chilean here Wink
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 16:02
Penguin:

Jesus has nothing to do with it, if you are going to respond please do so substantively.

I am not Chilean, as opposed to some people on this board Penguin, I am just knowledgeable regarding other languages.

Also,your use of the word "cachai" is inconsistent with your language philosophy regarding appropriation as it is dervied from the English word "catch."
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 17:10

Now, go straight to the point. You talked about logic, above. Let's see the facts:

(1) Vespucci visited South America (nor North America or the Caribbean)

(2) South America was called "America" by German Schollar Martin Waldseemuller

(3) With time the word "America" started to be applied to all the New World or Western Hemisphere.
 
(4) Very later on British stablish theirs colonies in the northern part of the hemisphere.
 
(5) Colones broke free, and found nothing more genial to do that call theirs federation the "United States of America". Quite well, because those states were in America, that was the name of the Western Hemisphere.
 
(6) Because of the economical and military success they have enjoyed, the United States spread the term "American" as synonim of "United State citizen" around the world.
 
(7) Yes, nobody complained because the rest of the states of the Americas didn't have the power to resist the United States whishes. Look what happened to Mexico, the Spanish Empire, Colombia (Panama affair) when someone opposed the destiny of the United States. Even more, the rest of the hemisphere didn't count at all for the United States.
 
(8) So, that's how the term "America" got established in English, Japanese, German and Russian language.
 
But we have been using the term America since long time before the first pilgrim arrived to Virginia, and there is no way we take that denomination seriusly at all.
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 02-Dec-2007 at 17:10
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  Quote longshanks31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 17:27
Where do the names of other continents come from i wonder
long live the king of bhutan
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 18:15
straight to the point. You talked about logic, above. Let's see the facts:

(1) The Western Hemisphere is made up of two continents: North America, and South America.

(2) In English the two continents are called "the Americas"

(3) In English U.S. citizens are called "Americans"

(4) In English America is a synonym for the United States

(5) The pilgrims landed in Massachusetts

(6) People in Latin America (mistakenly) complain about this non-issue all the time (you yourself are an example of that), so your point 7 doesn't make sense.


Your argument at its essence is a non-sequitur.  Also, a "German schollar (sic)" labeling a continent really has nothing to do with anything.

Languages are always borrowing words from other languages and changing their meaning (witness sympathetic/simptico which I referred to earlier, the Chilean-Spanish verb "cachar," or calling a shopping mall "un shopping." If you do not "take that denomination seriously" or are offended, this shows that you are exhibiting a very narrow world view. If you do not use the English language correctly people will continue to not take you seriously.

Please understand that this is not meant to be disparaging, only to help you recognize false cognates.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 18:54

No language confusion. Even in the Merriam-Webster dictionary on line, the definition of America you preffer comes in THIRD place Wink

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/america

Main Entry:
America Listen%20to%20the%20pronunciation%20of%20America
Pronunciation:
\ə-ˈmer-ə-kə, -ˈme-rə-\
Function:
geographical name
1either continent (North America or South America) of the western hemisphere
 
2or the Americas Listen%20to%20the%20pronunciation%20of%20the%20Americas \-kəz\ the lands of the western hemisphere including North, Central, & South America & the West Indies
 
 
And from the same dictionary, the meaning you preffer for "American" is also in the third place:

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/american

Main Entry:

1American Listen%20to%20the%20pronunciation%20of%201American Listen%20to%20the%20pronunciation%20of%201American
Pronunciation:
\ə-ˈmer-ə-kən, -ˈmər-, -ˈme-rə-\
Function:
noun
Date:
1568
1 : an American Indian of North America or South America
 
2 : a native or inhabitant of North America or South America
 
3 : a citizen of the United States
 
 
So, please, don't put in here that rethoric about language misunderstanding. Just go and read your own dictionary.
 
Thanks.
 
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 02-Dec-2007 at 18:56
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 19:11
Penguin:

I did check my dictionary. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/america

I stand correct. The United States is the first definition.

I put in the "rethoric" (you should consult a dictionary on this one as you didn't spell the word correctly) about language misunderstanding so as to give you a way out of a pickle and because it is fairly common. I also don't want people to continue looking upon you as a moron or a clown on the micro, cachai?

Really though, you need to brush up on your English skills, ask any native speaker about this topic and they will explain it to you just as I have (albeit probably less patiently). You shouldn't get in a huff when people who are more knowledgeable than you try to educate you.

Thanks.




Edited by JudahMacabee15 - 02-Dec-2007 at 19:30
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 19:37
Only yourself worries too much about my imperfect English. That's a typical mediocre attitude. If you can't win an argument go ahead and attack your enemy. What is more easy to attack that an allien that doesn't manage our language with the same skills like we do.
 
However, the fact that you answer everyone of my post, mean you understand them.
 
It is funny that when I lived in Canada and somebody prettended they didn't understand what I say, it was enough to say a bad word to them and they suddenly understood immediately LOLLOL
 
That's magic. Wink
 
In any case, for English, go Merriam-Webster LOL


Edited by pinguin - 02-Dec-2007 at 19:41
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 19:47
I'm not attacking you at all, I'm just trying to help you, as my prior statements demonstrate. if you continue confusing words your opinions will not be clear. Take it easy, I also don't care about your Canada stories.

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at with this last statement. Is Merriam-Webster a sports team that you are rooting for?

In any event, here's another source. American Heritage Dictionary "America: 1. the United States of America."

If I were to call you "gay" I might be wrong. I cannot validate the statement by saying it refers to you being in a jovial state, Words have meanings, the same applies here Penguin.



Edited by JudahMacabee15 - 02-Dec-2007 at 19:54
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