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Easternknight
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Topic: What if Mongolians horde landed in Japan? Posted: 06-Jun-2007 at 10:57 |
![Cool](http://www.allempires.com/forum/smileys/smiley16.gif) Welcome Back Janggoon
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pekau
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Posted: 06-Jun-2007 at 11:25 |
Originally posted by TranHungDao
Originally posted by pekau
There's not much to raid in Japan until you get to the Eastern Japan. Until then, they would be intercepted by mountains, Japanese warlords, Japanese resistance and overstretched communication and supply lines. |
I could have sworn that they made it to Japan, perhaps even landing some forces on eastern Japanese shores. But I'd have to double check.
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Very few actually made it to Japanese shores. But they were heavily outnumbered and leaderless compared to Japanese armies. Even a single warlord or two could have drove them off. I can't recall their eventual fate, but I am sure they either surrendered or were slain by Japan.
Or if they were Koreans/Chinese... maybe they took this as an advantage to sail to lands where there were no Mongolian influence. I have to get back to you on that one.
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Siege Tower
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Posted: 06-Jun-2007 at 15:23 |
yes a considerable number of ships made to the shore and they foungt agains the Japnese.
assuming this is a real painting around that time, there were actuall battles fought between Mongols and Japnese. ![](http://www.american.edu/ted/ice/images4/Mooko-Suenaga.jpg)
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Siege Tower
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Posted: 06-Jun-2007 at 15:49 |
is it possible that Chinese or Korean sailor knew about the kamakaze before the invasion and trick the mongolians into it.
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 06-Jun-2007 at 17:34 |
I've never thought of that. How good was meteorology in those regions at the time?
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pekau
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Posted: 06-Jun-2007 at 18:31 |
Originally posted by Gubook Janggoon
I've never thought of that. How good was meteorology in those regions at the time? |
Not well. I don't know much about China, but I know Korean's astrology declined ever since the splitting of Silla unification...
But Koreans and Chinese must have known that water current in East Sea is quite difficult for huge fleet to cross, if the violent typhoon didn't even exist in the first place. Why didn't the Mongolians use Korean Straight? Route is shorter.
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Kamikaze 738
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Posted: 06-Jun-2007 at 19:23 |
Originally posted by Gubook Janggoon
I've never thought of that. How good was meteorology in those regions at the time? |
Im not exactly sure about the sailors that went to Japan but Chinese farmers were usually able to predict the weather forecast such as if there would be rain for the farm or not. I dunno if they can predict typhoons though...
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honeybee
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Posted: 19-Jun-2007 at 23:01 |
"It would still be a "Mongol invasion", because forcing the males of defeated peoples was almost universally done amongst all the campaigns, Yuan or non-Yuan. Correct me if I'm wrong."
This is from CHF;
"Technically it is a Chinese invasion and was claimed to be a Chinese invasion by Kublai Khan. The Japanese also viewed it as a Chinese invasion, to the extent that when Toyotomi Hedioshi planned to invaded Korea, his envoy, the Monk Genso told the Koreans that Korea had allowed the Yuan dynasty to attack Japan 300 years before, she should now do as much for Japan when Japan is seeking revenge on China.
This was Kublai Khan's letter to Japan sent by the board of rites(a Chinese administrative post) from Yuan Shi:
八月癸亥,赐丞相伯颜第一区。丁卯,以兵部侍郎黑的、礼部侍郎殷弘使日本,赐 书曰: 皇帝奉书日本国王:朕惟自古小国之君,境土相接,尚务讲信修睦,况我祖宗 受天明命,奄有区夏,遐方异域畏威怀德者,不可悉数。朕即位之初,以高丽无辜之民, 久瘁锋镝,即令罢兵,还其疆埸,反其旄倪。高丽君臣,感戴来朝,义虽君臣,而欢若 父子。计王之君臣,亦已知之。高丽,朕之东籓也。日本密迩高丽,开国以来,时通中 国,至于朕躬,而无一乘之使以通和好。尚恐王国知之未审,故特遣使持书布告朕心, 冀自今以往,通问结好,以相亲睦。且圣人以四海为家,不相通好,岂一家之理哉?以 至用兵,夫孰所好,王其图之。
Key phrase: "Japan was close to Korea, ever since its creation, it has often been in contact with China. Only with me, was there not a single envoy that was sent for good relationship."
In fact, Kubilai had planned to create a "province of Japan" before he invaded. "
The same goes with all of the Mongol invasions in other parts of East Asia; the political protocol was that of a Chines emperor, the only part of Asia where the Mongol fought as "Mongols" was in cental Asia.
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snoman713
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Posted: 19-Jun-2007 at 23:20 |
japanese, hands down. since the majority of thier military activity was domestic, you can be sure they had learned to use the terrain of thier own country to thier advantage better than most nations at the time learned to use thiers. The rocky landscape with narrow corridors in between the mountains would have worked greatly to the adavntage of the japanese, and greatly inhibited thetraditional fighting style of the mongol hordes. Even if geurilla warfare was unknown, the japanese knew war very well, and would have most certainly been able to adapt in any way to secure the victory. Japanese, hands down. The Kamakura shogunate would have held on.
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the die is cast
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pekau
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Posted: 20-Jun-2007 at 18:56 |
Originally posted by snoman713
japanese, hands down. since the majority of thier military activity was domestic, you can be sure they had learned to use the terrain of thier own country to thier advantage better than most nations at the time learned to use thiers. The rocky landscape with narrow corridors in between the mountains would have worked greatly to the adavntage of the japanese, and greatly inhibited thetraditional fighting style of the mongol hordes. Even if geurilla warfare was unknown, the japanese knew war very well, and would have most certainly been able to adapt in any way to secure the victory. Japanese, hands down. The Kamakura shogunate would have held on. |
That's assuming that the Japanese would all unite against foreign invasion.
I wonder, how extensive was firearms and cannons used by the Mongolians? That might change the tide of war. Remember, Mongolians were skilled archors. Japan had good archors, but archors were ususally nobles. Mongolian armies had greater firepower for arrows... and Japanese armies tend to charge with pride. It will be like France vs. Britain in Hundred Years War again...
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