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Turkish Writer Orhan Pamuk wins Nobel
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Leonidas View Drop Down
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Turkish Writer Orhan Pamuk wins Nobel
    Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 05:57

Originally posted by Kapikulu

I don't believe Pamuk has done things in order to promote free speech...If he really had done so, he would have been appreciated by the Turkish folk. But unfortunately, he is not sincere about that...Anyway, he had reached his aim, now he can go away and be a lecturer anywhere in the world, but I clearly hate such stereotypes who do things in this manner instead of stating what's on his mind, clearly expressing the real aim, and standing behind it ..
well i dont think he did anything for free speach either, he just practices it. Nor do I think anyone can assume his intentions. So what makes you think he is insincere? (or is it a gut feeling thing?)
 
 
Originally posted by Kapikulu


Those lawyers are another story, but I shall also add that I see them just as a few dumb fascists, Kerincsiz& his incompetent crew
i only know of them via the media, but what you say sound good to me, either way it is obvoius, that it is them who make this all political not him


Edited by Leonidas - 20-Oct-2006 at 05:59
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Posts: 147 		  Quote alexISS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 07:42
Originally posted by Leonidas

well i dont think he did anything for free speach either, he just practices it


But practicing free speech in a free speech intolerant environment is by itself an action that promotes that right
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Posts: 8595 		  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 09:13
Before we go on further villifying the lack of free speech about a certain country by certain forumers on this thread, does anyone know if and how many people have been successfully prosecuted under article 301?
    
    

Edited by Seko - 20-Oct-2006 at 09:14
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Posts: 2329 		  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 09:45
Originally posted by Seko

Before we go on further villifying the lack of free speech about a certain country by certain forumers on this thread, does anyone know if and how many people have been successfully prosecuted under article 301?      
    
 
I don't follow this very closely, but if it's harmless as you're implying (are you ?) then why the hell is it there in the first place?
 
I believe that many have been convicted, like Zana, but here're more details from Amnesty International on article 301: http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engeur440032006
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Yiannis - 20-Oct-2006 at 10:39
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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Posts: 147 		  Quote alexISS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 10:05
I believe that the existance alone of an article that penalizes "insult to Turkishness" is enough. And continuous EU requests for it's elimination that are simply ignored keep the issue afloat.

Originally posted by Seko

does anyone know if and how many people have been successfully prosecuted under article 301?

None, but isn't fear of prosecution, even without a final conviction, enough to annul freedom of speech?
"Military justice is to justice what military music is to music" Groucho
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Posts: 8595 		  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 11:04
Oh, I don't support the static description of what 'Turkishness' is nor is the government unassailable. I think those within the government and legal agencies have used this article to attempt inappropriate and subjective prosecution at will.
Yet, none have been successfull at it. That is a good thing.

Historically, in 2005 Erdogan and his party came up with this article. Anyway, It's time to amend or do away with this article all together.


Article 301 states the following.

- A person who publicly denigrates Turkishness, the Republic or the Grand National Assembly of Turkey, shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and three years.
- A person who publicly denigrates the Government of the Republic of Turkey, the judicial institutions of the State, the military or security organizations shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and two years.
- In cases where denigration of Turkishness is committed by a Turkish citizen in another country the punishment shall be increased by one third.
- Expressions of thought intended to criticize shall not constitute a crime.
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 11:50
Seko, im not vilifying turkey but criticise that law and those who try to abuse it. You have my apologies if i written something that took (or seems to take) a swipe at turkey. The part that i dont like the most is the not being able to denigrate (this can still be open to interpretation, like 'insult') the military or the government.

Now some people are geting pursued for publishing chomsky's 'Manafacturing consent' , i dont know what chomsky said but i always liked him. The number of people pursued by this newer law is around 60. Apparently the 90's were worse.

Yannis this law is a softer substitute of some other older law which i am less familiar with. Generally speaking these things are moving, in the right direction, albiet slowly and with some clowns taking advantage of 301's loose wording. 301 doesnt seem to be a popular law full stop.
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Posts: 965 		  Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 17:17
Originally posted by alexISS


Originally posted by Seko

does anyone know if and how many people have been successfully prosecuted under article 301?

None, but isn't fear of prosecution, even without a final conviction, enough to annul freedom of speech?

 
Not enough, too much. 301 is against criticizeing state, army, officers, parliment...
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 17:26

critisizeing is not right word, Infact If this law is applied, half of to Turkey would be prosecuted.
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