Medieval Kingdoms

Originally posted by Mosquito Rider Gniezno was an Archbishopric and has never been a bishopric. It was erected in 1000 AD as Archbishopric.

Not so by my encyclopaedias.

Originally posted by Barbarroja County of Barcelona, of Urgell

I have Urgell, only spelt wrong; I do think I am missing Barcelona, but I do have the March of Spain/Spanish March.

Originally posted by Barbarroja Kingdom of Valencia, of Mallorca, of Galicia (was also a kingdom during some years), and some Kingdoms of Taifas like Denia, Badajoz, etc.

I do have Badajoz, only spelt as a former member suggested it be.

I do know also that Mallorca and Valencia were kingdoms, but would you be then so kind to give me some dates and stuff (first and last king/ruler/monarch?

Originally posted by Celestial I don't know what this huy is thinking. Fatimid Caliphate and Kingdom of Jerusalem in Asia Minor? wow. that is pretty new.

Please stay on a nicer tone , thanks. Who are you talking about? Me or Peter?

Originally posted by tsar Second Bulgarian Empire 1185-1396 Oh and btw it was a Tsardom not a kingdom

Hmmh. It is known as an Empire, and therefore it is an Empire, ruled by a tzar; I am not entirely sure, if the term Tzardom even exists in English nor if does such as Kniazdom..

I would need the:

name      beginning date   first king/duke/ruler      last king/duke/ruler    ending date.

Kingdom of England (927-1707)

From the Roman withdrawal from Britain in 410-411, Wales was an assemblage of independent Kingdoms (mainly, Deheubarth, Gwynedd, Powys, Brycheiniog, Morgannwg and Gwent) and not a part of England prior to the Norman invasion of Southern Britain that commenced in 1066.

Whilst these Kingdoms were by no means continually independent, for example,Hywel Dda  (Hywel the Good), formed Deheubarth from various smaller kingdoms, extended his rule over most of Wales by 942, upon his death his sons were able to retain control of Deheubarth but lost much of the rest of his kingdom.

It wasn�t until 1093 and the death of Rhys ap Tewdwr of Deheubarth that Wales was finally conquered by the Normans.

So I'd say you somehow need to reflect the Kingdoms of Wales at least until 1093...


Edited by rider - 03-Nov-2006 at 02:53

OK, I didn't want to open a new topic since it's a rather obscure question and either way I think this one is fine. Now, our professor at the SU (Sofia University) seems to be very fond of Medieval diplomacy, heraldry and titles. One of the things he heavily focused on today's lecture (and the previous one) was that the title of "king" and "tsar" (or "tzar", be it how you english-speaking lads find it better) are not the same and should not be mixed. This was especially importaint when Kaloian made an union with the pope and was titled "rex vulgarorum" in 1204, compared to the title "tsar".
Now, I'm not expert and I didn't have time to ask him to explain it further, but seems to me that there is a difference.

The title "tsar" cames from Ceaser, later byzantine "kessar" (also where german "keiser" derives from) and literary means "emperor" in slavic. It was passed on from Medieval Bulgaria to other slavic states (Russia, etc.) after Tsar Peter I became the first non-byzantine ruler to be granted the title in 929.

Can anyone actually explain the difference between a "king" and a "tsar", besides the obvious fact that Eastern Orthodox rulers were titled as tsars and Western Catholic - kings?
And really, shouldn't then Medieval Bulgaria and Russia (and any other states I can't remember now) be known as "Tsardoms/tzardoms" instead of "kingdoms"?

Well, sorry for my rather bad english. Hope my post's clear enough and you can help me out! ;)

And really, shouldn't then Medieval Bulgaria and Russia (and any other states I can't remember now) be known as "Tsardoms/tzardoms" instead of "kingdoms"?

Well, the only answer can be that they are known as Tzardoms (with Bulgaria as an Empire]...

Russia has never had a king...

In most modern articles, it's simply translated as "First Bulgarian Empire" and "Second Bulgarian Empire", which is more or less right, although there's quite some space for revisions. But that's the general thing. Of course, there's also the Russian Empire. And "tsar" (tzar, czar) is clearly an imperial title. What's interesting for me is why is "kniaz" translated as prince, while it's basically a normal king? Furthermore, I remember reading that one of the possible derivations of "kniaz" is close to the German "konig" (wuth umlaut) or the Northern "konung" and even today "koenig" means "king" on German. So, if we accept this, then Russia did have many kings and so did Serbia. We had one or two too. Of course, in the late middle ages we acquired a new form - "kral" (as in Krali Marko), which is now always and only translated as "king". But "kral" is only a newer replacement of "kniaz"... Oh, well, titles are not really my specialty. Although translations are... ;)

I believe that the Kiyvan ruler Svyatoslav (the guy, who caused all those problems for us at the end of the 60s of the X c.) was a "kniaz" and the territory he ruled and the power he had was at least that of a normal king. It's true, though, that many "kniazdoms" were fragmented and not very strong states, like f.e. the early Serbian and Russian "principalities". Another reason, which I was thinking about, is that there might also be the misleading similarity with "knez", which at some times and places meant something something like a village mayor or elder. Oh, and another one - since in Bulgarian (and probably Russian) "tsar" is equal both to "king" and "emperor", the sons of the "tsars" were often called "kniaze", which should be translated in this case exactly as "prince". Like f.e. in the Prince of Wales etc...

The Duchy of Normandy was not a kingdom. The political loyalty of the Church was transferred to the King in 987 along with the traditions of sacral kingship. From then it was very hard, if not impossible, for the various French princes to claim kingship. It was the coronation and the sacral ceremony that went with it that differentiated the King from all his subjects.


Source = Capetian France 987 - 1328 Edition Longham.

Russian has the word 'prints' as well as 'knyaz'. A knyaz (I was taught) is a ruler in his own right, whereas a prints is a relative of the king.

Let me start it off....