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Hellios View Drop Down
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Posts: 1933 		  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tsar Samuil
    Posted: 09-Dec-2006 at 05:56
Originally posted by Liudovik_Nemski

Latest news from the macedonian camp:
The greeks are wild tribes who came from Somalia(..) who came all the way from Afrika and settled in Greece. The maco's want to free Thessaloniki from "arab" occupation.
 
"Wild tribes from Africa" because of Greco connections with Egypt & other North African cultures. LOL
 
The author's comment about Thessaloniki being "under under Arab occupation" is a bit silly.
 
Back on topic: on this website they show Samuil under the House of Komitopul Czars, along with Radomir and Vladislav.  Have a look & let know what you think if you want: http://homepage.mac.com/crowns/bg/avtxt.html 


Edited by Hellios - 09-Dec-2006 at 12:25
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Posts: 262 		  Quote Liudovik_Nemski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2006 at 06:47
The thing about the greeks wasn't my idea it's the third and fourth comment under the video i posted on the previous page Smile
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Posts: 1933 		  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2006 at 06:55
I know.  Wasn't talking about you.  Was talking with you about the writer's comments.  Sorry if it wasn't clear. Smile
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Hellios - 09-Dec-2006 at 12:24
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Posts: 473 		  Quote Patrinos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2006 at 07:22
Originally posted by blue

and my grandfather is from Egean Macedonia(from a village close to the ruins of Pela,so i declare myself direct descendant from Alex the great

    
And the fact that you speak a dialect of "fyromacedonian"(aka bulgarian) makes you his grandson.
    
    

Edited by Patrinos - 09-Dec-2006 at 07:26
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Posts: 2347 		  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2006 at 12:15
Originally posted by NikeBG

Why not? AFAIK, Sandanski is in the Macedonian region. My grandmother is from a village near Dupnitsa (former Stanke Dimitrov), which is pretty much in the buffer zone between the Macedonian end and the Shopluk. So I'm 1/4 Macedonian and 3/4 Shop. Of course, I make the clear distinction of Macedonian as regionality and Macedonian as "ethnicity".


My uncle is from Macedonia as well. He comes from Monastir (Bitola) near the Ohrid lake. There used to be lots of Turks there before Tito expelled them.
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Posts: 1933 		  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2006 at 14:59
Originally posted by bg_turk

My uncle is from Macedonia as well. He comes from Monastir (Bitola) near the Ohrid lake. There used to be lots of Turks there before Tito expelled them.
 
 
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Posts: 2347 		  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2006 at 18:27
Originally posted by Hellios

Originally posted by bg_turk

My uncle is from Macedonia as well. He comes from Monastir (Bitola) near the Ohrid lake. There used to be lots of Turks there before Tito expelled them.
 
 


It's nice. I've been there two years ago.
http://www.journalof911studies.com
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Posts: 1933 		  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2006 at 20:34
A few of my new acquaintances in this thread will get a good laugh from this silly vid:
 
It gets VERY funny after the 1.50 mark:
 
 


Edited by Hellios - 11-Dec-2006 at 04:14
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Posts: 478 		  Quote Timotheus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 18:29
That is stupidity distilled.

It always depresses me when the Serbs, Bulgars, Greeks, Turks, and Macedonians try to take Skanderbeg away from the Albanians. Not only do they have no facts on their side, but he's the only guy they've got. Give them a break...
Opium is the religion of the masses.

From each according to his need, to each according to his ability.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 19:44
I'm sorry 4 beeng so late with my reply but i forgot my pass and im moving houses at the moment.
 

hahah how many macedonian names carry the caracteristic "old"  Bulgar names such as Kuber, Omurat, Eshach, Tervel, Onegavon and so on...
i can brag on and on
but here is a little song writen and known among us Macedonians....
...the song is old and is not new or part of the "TITO connection"(which btw is total BS, in otherwords the communist regime never helped macedonian history, only decintigrated it!!!)

Poslusajte patrioti da vi kazam slovoto, --- Listen up patriots, let me tell u the story
Na Gjurgovden bev zatvoren,                  --- On St. George's day i was locked up
v' crni temni zandani                                  --- in a dark gloomy cell (zandani means a collection of cells, jail to be precise)

Vo zandani bev predaden                         --- In jail I was betrayed (to be put in jail I was betrayed)
Od prokleti spioni                                      --- By the damned trators
Od prokletite spioni                                   --- By the damned trators
i ne razbrani trgovci                                   --- and unforgiving(or with no moral ethics) tradsmen

Vo zandani bev izmacen                            --- In the jail i suffered (got tortured)
Nitu voda nitu leb                                      --- No water, No bread (without water, without bread)
teloto mi pokrepnelo                                  --- My body was dying out
bela riza do zemja                                       --- (this line just shows the state of his detiriorating fizical health)

Ah ve molam ne macejt me                       --- Oh! Please stop tourchuring me
Jas sum nevin kako cvet                           --- Im as inocent as a flower
sum se borel za sloboda                           --- I've only fought for freedom
za covecki pravdini                                    --- (fought) for human rights

ah, da znae mojta majka                            ---Oh, if my mother only new
grobot da mi iskopa                                   ---So she can dig me a grave
grobot da mi go iskopa                             ---Dig me a grave
prema jasnoto sonce                                 --- facing the shining sun

i na grobot da napise                                --- and on the toomstone she should write
tuk pociva macenik                                   --- "here lies a myrthyr,
tuk pociva aleksandro                              --- here lies aleksandar
karagule ohridski                                       --- karagule from ohrid.

Aleksandar Karagule is a Macedonian hero for United Macedonia and thise are his sufferings from a BULGARIAN prison.
So he was telling the story to his fellow patriots(Macedonians) how the Bulgars tortured him, because he wanted FREEDOM and HUMAN RIGHTS... If he wanted FREEDOM and HUMAN RIGHTS that means that he was not with the Bulgarian Cause but he regarded himself as a MACEDONIAN and for this cause he suffered... all of Bulgaria was cheering for the new freedom, BUT Macedonians wore NOT, which clearly indicates by the HUMAN RIGHTS mentioned. And plus why would a "Bulgarian" need FREEDOM from his "fellow" bulgarians?!
I rest my case.

 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 19:47

Oh....and

Goce Delcev (part of VMRO(Vnatresna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija) or IMRO (Internal Macedonian Revolucionary Organisaation) born in Kukus(today Kilkis, Greece) also an Intelectual and a true Macedonian), once said:

"... he who intends for Macedonia to be a part of Serbia, BULGARIA, or Greece, can call himself a good Serb, BULGAR or Greek, but NOT a MACEDONIAN"

Why on earth would a Bulgarian Say That!? Bulgarians clearly state that Goce Delcev was a bulgarian?! This sais it all NO other comment exposes the TRUTH as brutal as this.

...finaly I REST MY CASE.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 20:28
Originally posted by Hellios

Are any of these maps of Samuil's empire accurate?
 
From: faq.macedonia.org
 
LOL
 
 
Wink
 
 
 
Shocked
 
 
Stern Smile
 
 
 
 
Ok if these maps are not true, why don't you find me maps of the Archisopry of Ohrid, which was in place then and compare the map of tzar Samuil and the reageons and devision of the previusly mentioned archbishopry.
 
You'll see that they comply!!!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 20:30
Originally posted by Liudovik_Nemski

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnXIb62BkFE

My fears came true...in the video Tzar Simeon I is proclaimed a macedonian tzar.But our macedonian friends didn't stop here:

Cleopatra,Achilles,Lenin,Stalin and Yuri Gagarin were all macedonians didn't you know?
 
That video shows people that wore heavely influenced by Macedonia and not all of them are Macedonians.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 20:39
Originally posted by Patrinos

Originally posted by blue

and my grandfather is from Egean Macedonia(from a village close to the ruins of Pela,so i declare myself direct descendant from Alex the great

    
And the fact that you speak a dialect of "fyromacedonian"(aka bulgarian) makes you his grandson.
    
    
 
I don't wanna make connections between Ancient Macedonian and modern Slavic languages (theory that Pelezgians(ancient balkan peoples*sorry for my english transcript) wore the bkg of the Ancient Macedonians and many other peoples, thrakians and so on and so forth..)
 
but what about the word
 
Pella which is simmilar to the word "Spilla"(meaning rock) ... and I think we all know the setting of the ancient Macedonian capital of Pella ;)
 
P.S. Ill present you all with more of this linguistical connections in the appropriate thread. 
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Posts: 407 		  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2006 at 01:30
-Do you read topics ,before posting? (esp. when u do 5 posts )
....It's "Tsar Samuil"  (!)

Also..it would be better not to start this "linguistic connections thread"...(or at least post it in historical amusement)
i know what u mean -i have seen such threads on forums of Australian and Canadian Slavomacedonians and nationalistic sites.
They are out of reality.

PS:Pella lies on plains not in rocky place Smile
PS2:Spilos in ancient Greeks is the mole/beauty-spot of the skin.
Hm....connection with Slavs? LOL



Edited by Brainstorm - 14-Dec-2006 at 01:31
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Posts: 1460 		  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2006 at 02:25
    theMacedonian2(do you have any connection with theMacedonian ?)

Spilos(σπίλος) is a Greek word and not Slavonic.

It has two meanings
-rock
-beauty-body mole(medical term)

All the above meanings you can founded in many ancient Greek texts,1000 years before your Slavonic ancestors contact with the Greek literature. Because you use this word is not mean that is yours.
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Posts: 529 		  Quote NikeBG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2006 at 04:44
Originally posted by theMacedonian2

hahah how many macedonian names carry the caracteristic "old"  Bulgar names such as Kuber, Omurat, Eshach, Tervel, Onegavon and so on...

Do you know how many modern Bulgarians are named Kuber, Omurtag (not Omurat), Eshach, Tervel, Onegavon etc? Pretty much none. And if there are any, they can probably be counted on the fingers on your two hands.
 
Originally posted by theMacedonian2

And plus why would a "Bulgarian" need FREEDOM from his "fellow" bulgarians?!

Example - Dimitar Talev. Ever heard of him? Probably not, although he's from the Macedonian region (born in Prilep, I think). He's a quite famous author (we study his works in 12th grade) and wrote almost entirely on Macedonian subjects, his two probably greatest works being a trilogy about Tsar Samuil and a tetralogy (actually, there were supposed to be five books, but he died before finishing the last one) about the Liberation movement - "The iron oil lamp", "The bells of Prespa", "Ilinden" and "I hear your voices". I'd suggest you read them, although I doubt you could find them in Macedonia. Anyway, although he clearly states that most of the Macedonians around that time felt themselves to be Bulgarians (he himself being a child during the Ilinden uprising and the following slaughter and thus has his own direct memories), he was imprisoned and sent to labour camps after 1944 exactly by the Bulgarian (communist) government from that time. So, it's not the first time that Bulgarians were imprisoned by other Bulgarians. Even furthermore - because of the stupid "disagreements" between the two Liberation organisations (the VMORO (later VMRO) and the varhovists, i.e. the internals and the externals; Talev writes about their fights too) Bulgarians were even killing other Bulgarians all in the name of the freedom of Macedonia (be it for initially an autonomous Macedonia, as was VMRO's idea, or for direct joining of Macedonia to Bulgaria, as was the varhovist's idea). So, to answer your "why would a "Bulgarian" need FREEDOM from his "fellow" bulgarians?" question: Simply because throughout all our history we've been constantly fighting each other, which of course led to imprisoning or even killing each other. I can't say if such was the case with the song you wrote about, since I'm not familiar with this particular case. But this could be one of the explanations, although not the only one.


Edited by NikeBG - 17-Dec-2006 at 04:55
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Posts: 262 		  Quote Liudovik_Nemski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2006 at 07:05
Originally posted by theMacedonian2

Originally posted by Liudovik_Nemski

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnXIb62BkFE

My fears came true...in the video Tzar Simeon I is proclaimed a macedonian tzar.But our macedonian friends didn't stop here:

Cleopatra,Achilles,Lenin,Stalin and Yuri Gagarin were all macedonians didn't you know?
 
That video shows people that wore heavely influenced by Macedonia and not all of them are Macedonians.


And how exactly were Stalin,Lenin,Yan Hus and Yuri Gagarin influenced by Macedonia?LOL
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Posts: 407 		  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2006 at 07:43
Originally posted by the Macedonian2


Cleopatra,Achilles,Lenin,Stalin and Yuri Gagarin were all macedonians didn't you know?


I m sure they didn't know it too! LOL

PS:A small detail:
The fact that Achilles was ruler of Fthia (in central Greece) and lived (if he ever lived of course) around 1200 BC,some 500 years before the establishment of the Macedonian kingdom is not a problem..Is it? Big smile
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Posts: 407 		  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2006 at 09:41
I m continuing here an issue about "Thema Makedonias and Macedonia" here ,since its more relevant than in the "modern history" section.

So ,why was "Thema Makedonias" located away from modern geographical region of Macedonia?

These maps show Byzantine Empire in the end of 7th century and during the reign of Constantine Porphyrogennitos(911-959)


In the end of 7th century there are 2 main themata in teh Balcans:Thema Ellados" =Hellas th.(Greece) and "Thrakoon Thema" = Thrace th.
This separation marks that the older Roman administrative regions (Macedonia,Achaea,Thrace,Illyricum) were abandoned and the new administration forms of Themata were probably named by the ancient Geographical definition of these regions.
According to Strabo and Claudius Ptolemaeus Greece (Hellas) and Thrace borders are in Strymon river.
The expanded borders of Macedonia after Philip II ,however included "Eastern Macedonia"(ex thracian region) which lyes between Strymon(Struma) and Nestos(Mesta).

First mention of "thema Thrakoon" is in 680 and of "Thema Hellas" 695.
(the blue line in the sec map)

Themata as time was passing were split into smaller pieces.
So ,in the 8 th century Thema Thrakoon was split into "thema Thrakoon" and "Thema Makedonias" (first mentioned in 789-802) (the red line in the second map)

In the 9th century "Thema Ellados"(Hellas) was split in :
TH.Kephalenia (809),TH.Peloponnesos(812),TH.Thessaloniki(836)TH.Dyrachium842-3),TH.Dalmatia(878),TH.Nikopolis(899) and of course TH.Hellas(existing since 695 but containing much less area)

In the same time "Thema Makedonias" was split into :
"Thema Strymon"(Strymon) (899) and "Thema Makedonias"
"Strymon" located between rivers Strymon(struma) and Nestos(mesta) -in fact in the region of Eastern Macedonia.
So in "Thema Makedonias remained only geographical regions of Thrace,and that's why is located far from what was Ancient and  modern region of Macedonia.





Edited by Brainstorm - 22-Dec-2006 at 09:44
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