Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Ancient Anatolian Peoples
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 6>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ancient Anatolian Peoples
    Posted: 20-May-2005 at 07:39

It is good that you believe Iranians and Turks have a mixed culture!

But it can not be said about all Turkic and Iranian peoples, for example there are also about two million Turkmens in Iran who live in the north west of the country, if you go there you will see that everything is different in this part of Iran, it seems you have entered another country, their language, faces, costumes, buildings, ... are completely different from other parts of Iran.

I think these people are real Turks, don't you think so?
Back to Top
Ionian View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 28-Feb-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 175 		  Quote Ionian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2005 at 07:56
Back to Top
Ionian View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 28-Feb-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 175 		  Quote Ionian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2005 at 07:58
Back to Top
Alparslan View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 517 		  Quote Alparslan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2005 at 09:33
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

It is good that you believe Iranians and Turks have a mixed culture!

I do not talk with my beliefs about history. Knowledge is related with history. Belief is the subject of religion and dogmas.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

But it can not be said about all Turkic and Iranian peoples, for example there are also about two million Turkmens in Iran who live in the north west of the country, if you go there you will see that everything is different in this part of Iran, it seems you have entered another country, their language, faces, costumes, buildings, ... are completely different from other parts of Iran.

This is very normal. Some parts of all countries show differences if the geography is very big and mountanous. Turks who were nomads and Muslim called Turcomans. Sedentary Turks were usually not called as Turcomans.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I think these people are real Turks, don't you think so?

No I do not think so. Ther is not something that can be called such as "real Turk", "real Persian" or "real Greek".   

 
Back to Top
Kenaney View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 543 		  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2005 at 14:13
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

It is good that you believe Iranians and Turks have a mixed culture!

But it can not be said about all Turkic and Iranian peoples, for example there are also about two million Turkmens in Iran who live in the north west of the country, if you go there you will see that everything is different in this part of Iran, it seems you have entered another country, their language, faces, costumes, buildings, ... are completely different from other parts of Iran.

I think these people are real Turks, don't you think so?

First I appologyse for my aggressieve post sorry,

Secondly, yes these people are nomadic-Turks...but the number you gave is wrong i guess because they are more azeris then in azerbaycan outside azerbaycan, most of them are in Iran...

 
OUT OF LIMIT
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2005 at 15:17

I meant "north east"!  Azeris are in the north west and Turkmens in the north east of Iran, Azeris are certainly more than 2 million, I think there are just about two million Azeris in Tabriz.

You can find hardly anything in Azerbaijan which is realted to ancient Turks, as I said everything is Iranian there.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2005 at 17:24
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I meant "north east"!  Azeris are in the north west and Turkmens in the north east of Iran, Azeris are certainly more than 2 million, I think there are just about two million Azeris in Tabriz.

You can find hardly anything in Azerbaijan which is realted to ancient Turks, as I said everything is Iranian there.

That is because the region of Azarbaijan was an ancient settlement place for Iranic people, and the region's past before the arrival of Turks is mostly Iranic.
Back to Top
Lannes View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 439 		  Quote Lannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2005 at 23:05

This is better suited in the Anthropology, Linguistics, and Etymology forum. 

τρέφεται δέ, ὤ Σώκρατης, ψυχὴ τίνι;
Back to Top
Ionian View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 28-Feb-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 175 		  Quote Ionian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2005 at 07:36
 RIGHT!
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Most of peoples who are called themselves Turks and Arabs (such as people of Turkey, Azerbaijan, Egypt, Algeria, ...) are in fact the descendants of some ancient peoples who have lost their "identity", for example about Azeris, it is obvious that Azeri language which was certainly an Indo-European language existed in Azerbaijan before the entering of the Turks to this region.
Back to Top
AyKurt View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 24-Mar-2005
Location: Scotland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 236 		  Quote AyKurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2005 at 09:08
This argument is a bit silly.  Questions of identity is decided by the present people and not by their genetics.  After all nearly every human in this planet is the descendants of people who have migrated into their present lands and intermixed with other inhabitants in the area, the only exceptions are perhaps the Aborigines, the Khoisan and perhaps the Andamanese and some other remote indigenous Asians.
Its strange how it always seems to be the Turks who have their indentity undermined.  A Turk is just as much a Turk as an Englishman is English.
To give an example take an Englishman from say Cumbria and one from Anglia.  The Cumbrian will more likely be darker haired and perhaps slightly swarthy, wheras the Anglian will more likely be fairer skinned and haired.  The Cumbrian Englishman will have more genetic similarity to the ancient Brythonic Cymri speakers and the Anglian with Germanic Anglo Saxons.  yet both are English and this isnt in doubt nor questioned.
So of course all Turkic peoples will have a diverse genepool but then so do nearly all people in the world today, including Europeans, Iranians, Armenians etc.
I hate to burst ur bubble Cyrus but your not the pure blooded Aryan you seem to think you are just as the Azaris are not Turkish speaking Iranians, just Turks, whether you like it or not.


Edited by AyKurt
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha
Back to Top
Kenaney View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 543 		  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2005 at 09:49

Ive heard in 13th century they where 72 identitys living in Turkey. Mevlana said, "look to the 72 different identities like 1"

"In Turkish 72 millete 1 millet gzyle bakin."

OUT OF LIMIT
Back to Top
Kenaney View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 543 		  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2005 at 09:54
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Most of peoples who are called themselves Turks and Arabs (such as people of Turkey, Azerbaijan, Egypt, Algeria, ...) are in fact the descendants of some ancient peoples who have lost their "identity", for example about Azeris, it is obvious that Azeri language which was certainly an Indo-European language existed in Azerbaijan before the entering of the Turks to this region.

You can say that theory for the greeks, iranian and further people. But the proof of that can be showed by DNA-tests.

ANd also once my teacher said about one of Turkish khans who did beat the Armenians said "We're coming back". He talked about of Coming-back...

OUT OF LIMIT
Back to Top
Ionian View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 28-Feb-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 175 		  Quote Ionian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2005 at 19:49
  ur teacher is not god!   
Originally posted by Kenaney

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Most of peoples who are called themselves Turks and Arabs (such as people of Turkey, Azerbaijan, Egypt, Algeria, ...) are in fact the descendants of some ancient peoples who have lost their "identity", for example about Azeris, it is obvious that Azeri language which was certainly an Indo-European language existed in Azerbaijan before the entering of the Turks to this region.

You can say that theory for the greeks, iranian and further people. But the proof of that can be showed by DNA-tests.

ANd also once my teacher said about one of Turkish khans who did beat the Armenians said "We're coming back". He talked about of Coming-back...

Back to Top
dorian View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 20-May-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 370 		  Quote dorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2005 at 20:10
Originally posted by Kenaney

You can say that theory for the greeks, iranian and further people. But the proof of that can be showed by DNA-tests.

ANd also once my teacher said about one of Turkish khans who did beat the Armenians said "We're coming back". He talked about of Coming-back...

DNA tests have shown this fact and many Turks are proud of being a mix of other nations. You came to a region where other tribes lived. You were mixed up with them.
Back to Top
Artaxiad View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 10-Aug-2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 488 		  Quote Artaxiad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2005 at 00:09

There is no such thing as ''Azerbaijan''. The ones who live in the republic of Azerbaijan are Turkic/Iranic Shiite muslims, who use a bastardized language. Before the 20th century, they were called Tatars.

The Albanians, Armenians, and Atropatenians used to live in what is now called the ''Republic of Azerbaijan'' and ''Southern Azerbaijan''. Albanians adopted the Armenian version of Christianity, and used an alphabet created by an Armenian. It should tell you something about them. The origins of Atropatenians are obscure. They were surely not any different from Persians or Armenians.

http://www.euratlas.com/time/sea0200.htm

Later on (around 900 AD), the Emirate of Azerbaijan was created. They were obviously not Turkic, but a mix of Islamicized Persians, Armenians, and Atropatenians. 

After the Turkic migrations, petty Turkic and Iranic states ruled the area. One of them was Shirvan.

Shervan or Shirvan was a former Persian province in Caucasus, a state ruled by the Shervanshahs and the birthplace of the Persian poet Khaqani. Shervan was ceceded from Iran by the Gulistan Treaty of 1813 and was annexed to Russia. It is now part of the Republic of Azerbaijan.

As is the case with many city and village names in large countries, there is often more than one city or village with the same name in different parts of Iran. Shervan/Shirvan happens to be one such case.

There is another Shervan/Shirvan in modern Iran proper, in the province of North Khorasan.

Azerbaijan was located south of the Araxes river.

http://www.euratlas.com/time/sea1200.htm
Back to Top
Alparslan View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 517 		  Quote Alparslan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2005 at 01:26

Originally posted by Artaxiad

There is no such thing as ''Azerbaijan''. The ones who live in the republic of Azerbaijan are Turkic/Iranic Shiite muslims, who use a bastardized language. Before the 20th century, they were called Tatars.

 There is Azerbaijan, there are Azeris and they are Turks even if you do not want to accept the facts. I wonder how you became so bilind!!!

Tatar was an alternative name for Turks. In fact this therminology was a generalisation. Tatars were originally a Mongol tribe who gained importance during Genghis Kagan period. After the Mongol conquest of Euroasian steppes; Volga-Bulgars, Baskurts and Crimean Turks were called as Tatars. This is wrong in fact calling all Turic tribes like this but during time Ottoman Turks and Azeris were also called as Tatars by western sources.

Just read a bit history please.  
Back to Top
Artaxiad View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 10-Aug-2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 488 		  Quote Artaxiad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2005 at 01:57

Just read a bit history please.
]

I know my history. Tell that to yourself.  

This is wrong in fact calling all Turic tribes like this but during time Ottoman Turks and Azeris were also called as Tatars by western sources.

Ottoman Turks were called Turks. South Caucasian Shiite Muslims were called Tatars.
Back to Top
Ionian View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 28-Feb-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 175 		  Quote Ionian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2005 at 11:43
Back to Top
Kenaney View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 543 		  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2005 at 14:34
Originally posted by Ionian

  ur teacher is not god!   
Originally posted by Kenaney

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Most of peoples who are called themselves Turks and Arabs (such as people of Turkey, Azerbaijan, Egypt, Algeria, ...) are in fact the descendants of some ancient peoples who have lost their "identity", for example about Azeris, it is obvious that Azeri language which was certainly an Indo-European language existed in Azerbaijan before the entering of the Turks to this region.

You can say that theory for the greeks, iranian and further people. But the proof of that can be showed by DNA-tests.

ANd also once my teacher said about one of Turkish khans who did beat the Armenians said "We're coming back". He talked about of Coming-back...

ANd youre teacher is brainwashed nationalist fashist!
OUT OF LIMIT
Back to Top
Ionian View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 28-Feb-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 175 		  Quote Ionian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2005 at 08:17
 well  my teachers was italians and france ..some times is good to  know what the rest of world learn.i know is difficult to change what from the first day of ur life learn u in turkey. try to free ur mind.and im not fashist ot nationalist. im open to all....turkey is a great country but the true is true....
Originally posted by Kenaney

Originally posted by Ionian

  ur teacher is not god!   
Originally posted by Kenaney

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Most of peoples who are called themselves Turks and Arabs (such as people of Turkey, Azerbaijan, Egypt, Algeria, ...) are in fact the descendants of some ancient peoples who have lost their "identity", for example about Azeris, it is obvious that Azeri language which was certainly an Indo-European language existed in Azerbaijan before the entering of the Turks to this region.

You can say that theory for the greeks, iranian and further people. But the proof of that can be showed by DNA-tests.

ANd also once my teacher said about one of Turkish khans who did beat the Armenians said "We're coming back". He talked about of Coming-back...

ANd youre teacher is brainwashed nationalist fashist!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 6>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.