Holocaust - Truth.. Lie.. Denial .. ??

Originally posted by red clay The numbers are based on the Nazis own records.  They kept impeccable records on everything.

 

Why there are big difference between these numbers? in some ethic groups, max numbers can be %20 or %300 more than min. if you know any web source, could you give me just nazi records   

Originally posted by red clay I don't understand why you would believe that bull.  I will remind you that anti semitism is one thing not tolerated on AE. The Global Jewish Conspiracy schitick is the mainstay for todays Neo Nazis and antisemites in general.  It does not now, or then, exist.   As for choking the German economy, do a little digging and reading, and you'll find that many "jewish banks" actually financed Hitler's industrial buildup.

I don't think Baal's an antisemite. He was probably trying to explain why the Nazis believed the Jews were a threat, but forgot to mention this in his reply

Originally posted by red clay Originally posted by Baal Melqart Originally posted by red clay I don't understand why you would believe that bull.  I will remind you that anti semitism is one thing not tolerated on AE. The Global Jewish Conspiracy schitick is the mainstay for todays Neo Nazis and antisemites in general.  It does not now, or then, exist.   As for choking the German economy, do a little digging and reading, and you'll find that many "jewish banks" actually financed Hitler's industrial buildup.     And I can't tolerate it when people use liberal shovinism to prove a point. Just because I believe in a different version of history doesn't straight away make me an anti-semite, in fact you shouldn't so liberal with that word. If you think that my opinions are wrong and you think that you are right, then do an effort to prove me wrong with facts, just like CV did and I accepted that he was right. I wasn't talking about a global jewish conspiracy, this was nothing like that. It was an OPEN declaration of embargo, no conspiracy there. As for Jewish banks funding Hitler, there were only one Jewish bank who financed him, the Rockefeller group and did so because it was a very lucrative investment, period.     There was no embargo, there was no Jewish conspiracy.  The Nazis created the idea to justify the persecution of the Jews and to give them someone to blame the war on.   If your going to call me something, at least spell it right.  Liberal Chauvinist, hmmm, first time I've been called that. My friend, I grew up with kids whose parents and grandparents had numerical tatoos on their arms.  I've heard the stories first hand, not from books or movies.  Whenever I see an effort to diminish or justify the horror, I remember those folks, and anything I say is always in their honor. Don't kid yourself, the Holocaust was real, and the Jews weren't reponsible for the war, the Nazis were.  And any attempt to say otherwise had better be backed up with real truths, Not something gleaned from an antisemetic blog. BTW- You missed the House of Rothchild and 5-6 major Jewish financial firms based in Switzerland.

I am truly sorry if you were offended and I guess I understand how you feel considering that you have friends who witnessed the Holocaust. I don't know if I have made this clear enough but my objective was not to justify the Holocaust but to give a realistic cause for the Nazi backlash. No matter what was the cause, the Holocaust was still a horrible crime against Jews and all humanity alike.

As for the embargo, as I stated earlier you can read the newspaper article in the link I provided. And red, the link between Rothschilds and Hitler has never been proven and is generally considered to be a conspiracy theory in itself. 5-6 major banks, give me names please.

Antisemitism was, sadly, a widespread problem in Europe, as shown by the vicious Russian pogroms. However, the Americans who hated Jews were a minority of Southern extremists: the KKK

Originally posted by Nick1986 Antisemitism was, sadly, a widespread problem in Europe, as shown by the vicious Russian pogroms. However, the Americans who hated Jews were a minority of Southern extremists: the KKK

Yes, I accept KKK is not very big organistion, but it is one of the most extreme one. However the different low level racistist acts were more common in America. My point is that facism in that period was not just problem of Italy or Germany. It was global.

Originally posted by red clay Attitudes didn't change until the truth about the Death camps became general knowledge.

Everybody wants the truth as pure, neutral version.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and main problem is not nation X-fobia or anti-nationY-ism, if you look the issue in that perspective, god saves us. because it is not a solution, it is not real reason, it can not solve anything.

attitude shouldn't establish on victims nations. this is just a maturbation way of victim nations. problem is general facism. today we can see facist acts even in Israel. if all society of Israel haven't learnt yet that discrimation is wrong, which nation can learn it.

when we look the case form general fasicm view, this helps to be accepted it by more people and prevent every type of it , not just nation X-fobia or anti-nationY-ism.

A:you killed my people here
B:but also you killed my people there
these dialogs just make the nations more aggressive agaisnt each others, not help to reach peace


Edited by Ollios - 10-Dec-2011 at 14:20

I think what Medenaywe's trying to say is that due to the large numbers of people involved, the Holocaust couldn't possibly have been a fabrication by a few Jewish bankers. Not only did the German people know about it, many of them willingly took part:

Hitler's Willing Executioners by Daniel Goldhagen

Id like to share some family stories about the holocaust if anyone cares, its more personal than argueing about numbers, and its not common how my grandfather survived.

My grandfather and his brother -like most jews in good health- in the first year of the war was forced to dig frontline trenches for the Hungarian army in the eastern border with Ukraine. They were treated normally comparing to those who went straight to the death camps some years later.

After that some years, when the German troops occupied Hungary all Jews had to be deported, so even those who worked on the battlefield had to be deported as well.
They didnt know where they were going when they were put on the train, but after a few hundred kilometers, when the train slowed down he and his brother decided to escape. They could kick out one wood block of the side of the train. The train were going to Auswitz as it is told after the war.
They jumped down and walked a few kilometers, and they are caught.

This time not by the Germans or the Hungarian army, it was the Soviet troops. They were in Hungarian uniform because of their work on the battlefield before, so the Soviets treated them as enemy, and they were put in a prisoner camp.
After a few days waiting, a night, when the Soviet guards were totally drunk with the help of some Vodka, they could escape from the Soviet camp too. They walked home to their borntown, but they didnt find their family home, all their brothers and sisters, their parents was deported to Auswitz, 1-2 people survived only from a very huge family.

Some close relatives who survived told a few stories about Auswitz too : Even if they didnt know exactly, they were more or less sure what is going on in the chambers. They simply knew it because the trains were coming fully loaded with people, and they always left empty. The camp didnt have other exists for large transports, and it happened only a very few times that transports leave, they were mostly coming. The incoming people were selected into 2 rows like you can see in any movie.
Mengele liked to do the selection himself, and did it as a daily routine for most transports.
When my grandfather's family arrived, relatives were there in the camp already, and they told to the newcomers wich row means survival.
Her sister were choosen to the good row, but her 4 years old daughter was selected to the other row, so her sister decided to step into the other row, she didnt want to let her children alone, even if she knew what that means to her. Mengele just raised his shoulder when the guards asked him if they should let her step to the other row or not.
Thats how she died that day.

My grandfather's brother died in cancer right after the war. He himself lived a long life, wich is truely amazing because after surviving all this, he put into prison by the communists, all his properties were taken by the government and he had 24 hours to leave his house and move to Budapest where he spent the rest of his life. But communism is an other topic..

sorry if I was boring anyone.

Yes Benzin,communism and democracy are long for discussion here!No one can speak about it if personal
has not experienced it!I am supporting your further story about communism even it is out of this topic. Regards.


Edited by medenaywe - 15-Dec-2011 at 16:51

Originally posted by Nick1986 Originally posted by Baal Melqart I don't understand what you mean by fabrication. Fabrication as in it never happened or fabrication as in it was planned for by the Jewish bankers? Very strange article. So these people were sampled out from the German population, no bias in whom they chose? I find it quite strange that the majority of this police patrol would willingly opt to kill even if there is no fear of punishment if they refused. I mean, I know that anti-semitism was prevalent in Germany even before the Nazi regime, but genocide being committed by the average citizen? I guess it goes back to the issue of power. Give people power and they'll find a way to abuse it. Holocaust deniers subscribe to both theories: some say the Jews planned the holocaust to kill off their rivals, others say it never happened and the evidence was planted by the Allies to justify war with Germany. Both, of course, are complete nonsense. In reality the Holocaust was a German crime, inspired by the Armenian Genocide and the death camps used against the Herero

Yes I've seldom heard such nonsense theories. To think that the Rockerfellers were so powerful as to influence Hitler into committing mass genocide is ridiculous!

Originally posted by Nick1986 Holocaust deniers aren't historians: they are lying charlatans seeking to justify the Nazi regime. Some of these nutjobs even claim the death camps were built by the Allies and the documents incriminating Hitler and Himmler were forgeries