Achievements of the Byzantines

ok this is try. They were born in byzantine and were educated there and about that I'm agreed. But i can ask you the same is that make them byzantines. Just one example how many people are born in other countries and not feeling themselfs as part of this country?!But how far as I know the alphabet which they created is based on byzantine one. This is first and second the alphabet which they've created is not on use today. Today we write on Cyril created by one of them students - Kliment. I don't want to say that byzantines haven't  contribution in all this....

ok I stop with that because don't want to angry other here

Originally posted by Tobodai the greatest laegacy of Byzantium is the battle of Constantinople, the repulse of the Arabsm and the pioneering use of Greek fire which then speread as far as China.  The victory over the Arabs at Constantinople is WAY more important than the overrated battles in France.

Agreed.

I remember in high school during the Middle Age segment, our teacher could not stop talking about the Battle of Tours in 732 AD, and nothing was mentioned about the 2 sieges of Constantinople in the 670s and in 717-18...

I am curious why Gibbon was so antagonistic to the Eastern Empire, or why his view has held sway in general as much as it has....

the Catholic church....

Originally posted by Jazz I am curious why Gibbon was so antagonistic to the Eastern Empire, or why his view has held sway in general as much as it has....

I think Gibbon saw the main reason in the fall of the Roman Empire in the emerging Christianity which he accused of eroding the forming principles of the Romans.
The Byzantine Empire of course was nothing but the continuation of the Roman Empire as a Christian theocratic state, and Gibbon saw it as deneration of all Roman virtues, as a despotic, weak, luxurious and effeminate state.
His comments, published in the late 18th century, fell into a period of rediscovery of the Greek and Roman antiquity, on which this neo-classicist period had a very idealised view, that lasted well into the next two centuries.


Edited by Komnenos

Well, it was the Italians who started the Renaissance, so you can't give 'em that. . Serously though, their greatest achievement was indefinately the defense of Europe from Muslim (and other foreigners') attacks. Without the defense of Constantinople, all of Eastern  Europe would  probably  have fallen to Muslim domination, and have met with the western Islamic army invading France.

I am stuck at home due to a messed up ankle and a cast so while looking through AE thought to revive this old thread. Too bad Kom is not around on AE anymore.

I love Treadgold's book on Byzantium. He is not exactly an expert on the east, but covers the Byzantine Empire excellently however.

Yes, Tours is overrated.

Byzantium is interesting because it is unique at the time. While the western provinces localized and adapted to a different political and social structure Byzantium flourished. I am not keen on calling them defenders or Europe nor of the West. The Caliphate that rose up was as Western and had much influence from the Greco-Roman world. Byzantium had a huge chunk of eastern territory first of all and a culture and society that was a mix of the ancient Roman society and of the old Greek society, too. But, also was eastern in many ways as well.

Originally posted by Temujin I don't see how any of the options apply, or rather, why they should be attributed to a single country.

Originally posted by Carpathian Wolf   "the Catholic church.... "   Had nothing to do with the East Roman Empire, if you are refering to what we know today as "Roman Catholicism." It emerged while Rome was not under the control of the Empire and their whole mentality and theology concerning Christianity was quite different. I'd say more legalistic.

Originally posted by Carpathian Wolf All of the 5 (Constantinople, Rome, Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria) were in communion with each other. But the pope at Rome was outside of the Empire itself. Once the west adopted the filioque (which pope Gregory and a few other bishops in Rome fought against) along with other reasions there was a schism yes.   Knit picking here but at Pentacost nothing about Christianity was really "Roman" as during that time Romans were Pagans. But I suppose Catholic could be used (Greek for universal IIRC). Semantics now.

I voted defence of Europe. Preservation of antiquity was a tempting option, but then they also went to lengths to destroy much of what was valuable in the ancient world.