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Socrates
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Topic: Hitler on Islam 1937 speech Posted: 26-May-2006 at 18:32 |
Originally posted by violentjack
Actually not Handzar division was among bravest divisions of SS
History was rather strange and complex here While chetniks Serbs were slaughtering Bosniaks in Eastern Bosnia 1941 , German soldiers some reported to Himmler that those people are among most aryan and many have nice qualities and are being butchered by Serbs.So, Himmler went to Bosnia in 1942 and true there were lot of Bosniaks who were quite tall had fair hair and were blonde.So, he decided for first time that Muslims will be part of this SS Division.They were send on eastern front in Stalingrad worst front by the way and even Russians were admiring them, because they would pray in the morning and later fight whole night,.They as Muslims received many iron cross decorations for their bravery this is not first time Bosniaks received that.In world war 1 Bosniaks were among bravest of Franz Joseph troops.So eventually Germans were defeated inRussia.
Bravest period among SS Handzar is famous mutiny of Villefrance de Rorgue France the first free town of occupied Europe.Mutiny was long time brewing, and many Handzar soldiers didnt wanna fight now Brits ,as they were bound for English channel.Many said to comandant that they wanna fight but back in Bosnia, where chetniks were killing local Bosniak civilian.But their wishes were denied!
What happened next is one of those secrets of world war 2.First comandeer of German insulted them , called them backward and then he spited on Quran and took of fes.Bosniaks couldnt take it anymoire, some 30 of Bosniaks surprised larger German troops and took whole town in 24 hours of fighting for town of Villefranche de Rourgue.
After that they managed to hold on to town for three days and outcome is all too familiar.Rebels were shot on spot, those that survived 3 day fighting!, But still today there is monument to their bravery in same town above
So, no, you are not right Bosniaks were brave soldiers
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Let's put some objectivity into the issue of Bosnia during WW II:
''Bosnia and Herzegovina, History of; Bosnia in the Yugoslav Kingdom''
...."In 1941, after the Axis invasion of Yugoslavia, the entire Bosnian territory was absorbed into the puppet state known as the Independent State of Croatia. The killing that took place in Bosnia between 1941 and 1945 was terrible in both scale and complexity. The Ustaa, the fascist movement that ruled Croatia during the war, exterminated most of Bosnia's 14,000 Jews and massacred Serbs on a large scale: more than 100,000 Serbs from Bosnia died in this way, roughly half in death camps. Two organized resistance movements emerged, a Serb royalist force known as the Chetniks, led by Draza Mihailovic, and the communist Partisan force (including Serbs, Croats, and Muslims) led by Josip Broz Tito. The sharply divergent aims of the two movements resulted in a civil war. Royalist forces turned increasingly to German and Italian forces for assistance and committed atrocities against Bosnian Muslims; some Bosnian Muslims joined an SS division that operated in northern and eastern Bosnia for six months during 1944, exacting reprisals against the local Serb population. The Partisans liberated Sarajevo in April 1945 and declared a people's government for Bosnia later that month. It is estimated that the total number of deaths in Bosnia during the war was 164,000 Serbs, 75,000 Muslims, and 64,000 Croats.
Copyright 1994-2002 Encyclopdia Britannica, Inc.
Btw - when saying that someone ''looks like a German(ic)" - u must bear in mind that blondness isn't exclusively of germanic origin...And Nordics are dolichocephals-those kids look more brachycephalic- i saw photos of golden blonde Lapps with some distinctive mongoloid features - blondness doesn't prove anything...Now, this is a Nordic:
This is probably how Goths looked like...i mean-it makes sense-they came from Gotland (todays Sweden)...and Max von Sydow is swedish...
This is a Serb - so he's of gothic origin, too?
Edited by Socrates - 26-May-2006 at 18:44
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violentjack
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Posted: 26-May-2006 at 19:02 |
This was just speculation, but durring middle ages, lot of Germanic tribes setlled in Bosnia, especially Eastern Bosnia
They were even majority of population in some towns that are in Slovenija Maribor(Marburg) And others untill 1919!
As for Serbs there are very few of them with blonde hair and features like this dude Basta
Actually you can go to places like Vranje, Nis, Pirot,Dimitrovgrad and
you would search for hours to find people like i posted on pic.On other
hands Bosniaks have more of Germanic% then both Serbs and Croats in
their Genes.Call it Germanic,Gothic,Balts,Viking i really dont
know?
Im not expert in racial studies of people, im just average guy with brown hair and eyes.Thanks
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Bosnjaci,probudite se ili nestanite
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violentjack
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Posted: 26-May-2006 at 19:05 |
Actually Confirmed number of Muslims killed is bit higher then 75 000 in world war 2
Its 103 000 Muslims, out of which more then 60% were civilians, others
were soldiers.From either Ndh forces or German Handzar troops
Some 20 000+Muslims were killed in 1941-1942 alone
Pavle Durisic in winter 1941 killed 8000 Muslims alone in counties of
Pljevlja,Cajnice,Gorazde,Foca, just in town of Foca he slaughtered
Muslims whole night and killed 3000 of them.Visegrad is another such
place, where thousands of Muslim civilians were also killed!
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Bosnjaci,probudite se ili nestanite
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Socrates
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Posted: 27-May-2006 at 06:40 |
Originally posted by violentjack
This was just speculation, but durring middle ages, lot of Germanic tribes setlled in Bosnia, especially Eastern Bosnia
They were even majority of population in some towns that are in Slovenija Maribor(Marburg) And others untill 1919!
As for Serbs there are very few of them with blonde hair and features like this dude Basta
Actually you can go to places like Vranje, Nis, Pirot,Dimitrovgrad and you would search for hours to find people like i posted on pic.On other hands Bosniaks have more of Germanic% then both Serbs and Croats in their Genes.Call it Germanic,Gothic,Balts,Viking i really dont know?
Im not expert in racial studies of people, im just average guy with brown hair and eyes.Thanks
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Blonde hair amongst us serbs is rare-but not very rare...brown and dark hair is certainly pravailent...This actor is much closer to ''average Serbian look'' (some of u might recognize him from ''Auf Wiedersehen, Pat" - he was Caddy-the bad Russian):
And here's a perfect example of Russian nordic (nordish?)-just to let u see that ''nordic look'' can come from sources other then germanic:
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Komnenos
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Posted: 27-May-2006 at 17:15 |
As interesting as this maybe, the ancestry of the Bosnians and related people is not the topic of this thread.
Open a new one!
Edited by Komnenos - 27-May-2006 at 17:16
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Posted: 28-May-2006 at 11:43 |
My sources tell me that the handschar division was also disbanded because they could not be trusted. Apparently whilst in France they killed an officer, and went on a raping spree.
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violentjack
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Posted: 28-May-2006 at 19:48 |
They killed scores of Germans, not officers
Did you read what i said about mutiny at Villefranche de Rourgue
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Posted: 30-May-2006 at 12:10 |
I read the posts and couldn't understand exactly what Hitler thought about Islam. I really wonder as I am a Muslim who is curious to learn about Adolf Hitler.
Somebody said Muslim do not like Jews as like Nazis. Muslims like Jews (See in Turkey) but Jews do not like or respect to any other religion or nation as they think they are "selected".
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malizai_
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Posted: 31-May-2006 at 13:22 |
Originally posted by ode1299
I read the posts and couldn't understand exactly what Hitler thought about Islam. I really wonder as I am a Muslim who is curious to learn about Adolf Hitler.
Somebody said Muslim do not like Jews as like Nazis. Muslims like Jews (See in Turkey) but Jews do not like or respect to any other religion or nation as they think they are "selected".
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There are a few things that r black or white in this world, most are grey. Politics make uneasy bedfellows of people holding diametric agendas and views in a common cause.
here are some examples that may remove or add to your confusion.
Sikh supporting a white racsict party.
A Jewish woman has won........for the far right
neo-Nazi fanatic...............switched to Islam
Here is one closer to time of hitler with more easy to uinderstand political dimensions
Amin al-Husayni
Ahmed Huber
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Giannis
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Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 08:34 |
I wonder if instead of a prosperous jewish community in the early thirty's there was a turkish in Germany like nowdays. Would Hiltler made the same speech or would we speak today for a turkish holocaust?
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bg_turk
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Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 08:45 |
Originally posted by Giannis
Would Hiltler made the same speech or would we speak today for a turkish holocaust? |
This is something I have wondered too. And I fear the answer might have been yes.
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Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 11:37 |
Originally posted by Giannis
I wonder if instead of a prosperous jewish community in the early thirty's there was a turkish in Germany like nowdays. Would Hiltler made the same speech or would we speak today for a turkish holocaust? |
Would the Turks carve up Germany for their own greedy agenda????
No we would not hear about a Turkish holocaust, just as we dont hear of the Algerian Genocide, Armenian Genocide, The gypisies, slavs who died in the holocaust/hard labor, Ukrainian holocaust, Pol Pot, red army atrocities, English genocide on the Boers, Japanese atrocities against the Chinese. It just goes on and on and on and on and on.
At my old school the Jews were the focus. For example i never learnt of the Armenian or Ukranian genocide/Holocaust. Infact i had never even heard of them, not until i got the internet. *strange*
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Komnenos
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Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 14:38 |
Originally posted by machine
Originally posted by Giannis
I wonder if instead of a prosperous jewish community in the early thirty's there was a turkish in Germany like nowdays. Would Hiltler made the same speech or would we speak today for a turkish holocaust? |
Would the Turks carve up Germany for their own greedy agenda????
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What is that about to mean? I hope it's not what I think it is.
Back to the original question.
It's difficult to answer, on the one hand the Jewish citizens of Germany provided the most convenient ethnic group to serve as a scapegoats for everything that had gone wrong in Germany in the 1920s, , but on the other hand, the Nazis rabid Anti-Semitism would not have fallen on such a fertile ground in Germany, if it hadn't been prepared by 2000th years of systematic persecution of the Jewish people, mostly by the good Christian people of Europe. The ease with which the Nazis could slaughter 6 Million Jewish people, without meeting any serious resistance by the resident German ( and that of occupied countries') population, was only possible because the capacity for anti-semite pogroms was inherent in the German population since generations.
So, a large ethnic minority group in Germany in the 20s other than the Jews would still have had to suffer from the usual racist and xenophobic madness that afflicts nations in times of economic crisis, but if it had taken on such unspeakable proportions as the Holocaust, is somewhat doubtable.
But in view of a new wave of recent Neo-Nazi attacks on the immigrant community in Germany, there certainly is a connection, and the moronic suggestion ( even mentioned on AE) that there is again a religious group, this time the Muslims, that is trying to take over Germany and Europe, is too similar to the old accusations against the Jewish people, to be ignored.
Edited by Komnenos - 01-Jun-2006 at 14:40
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Renegade
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Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 12:22 |
If Hitler and his henchmen were here today, they would be leading HAMAS and Hezbollah against Israel.
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Leonardo
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Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 03:08 |
Originally posted by violentjack
Here is example of Bosnian village those two in set are brothers
Some have blonde hair, some grey and some are more dark.
http://bhstring.net/tuzlauslikama/tuzlarije/forum.htmClick that link and you will see Sorry click above Tuzlarije where it says And then you shall see posjeta Cerskoj i Srebrenici, which means visit to Cerska and Srebrenica Click that and you will see nice collection of Bosniaks, especially litlle kids, and you will see some Swedes ![Wink](smileys/smiley2.gif) Here is one such pic ![](uploads/20060525_090053_cerska.jpg)
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Childish blondism proves nothing, cause it's more or less common in all caucasoid peoples. You have to consider only adult blondism.
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TheDiplomat
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Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 20:15 |
Hitler once said that if the Jews didnt live they would have to invent them.
This is one of his clearest remarks on revealing his Nazism...Nothing unites people more than a common enemy!
Today the NPD, which has been accused as a Neo-Nazi party, focuses on the Turkish immigrants in their campaigns.
But if it was the Turks who lived in Nazi Germany, i think they would not face the same consequances that The juwish people went through. For anti-semitism was already well-established in the cultural life of Germany . it should be noted that Germany was complaining about the Juwish monopoly since the Protestan reformer Martin Luther.
Besides, Hitler's world view and future ambions took root during his great war years,a war in which the Ottoman state was an ally of the German reich. I hardly think that he would have been too hars on the Turkish community living in Germany.
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