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    Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 04:28
Originally posted by rollopollo

Originally posted by Anujkhamar

and you're beliefs are?

I seem to get a feeling that you and me are arguing the same point.

lolz ok i'll summarize.

First, the majority of Indians are brown skinned, brown eyed and black haired.

1)since the original poster asked, i believe the lightest indians are punjabis of Greater Punjab, Coorgis, kashmiris, konkanis, chitpavans and brahmins from everywhere. Also people from the northeastern states have light skin combined with oriental features. Lightskinned or even light eyed people aren't very uncommon in those communities.

2) Pakistan and part of India(the northwest) have a similar history. So saying all indians are like all Pakistanis is a generalization. For ex. a paki from punjab or NWFP has nothing to do with a bengali or a person from Orissa.

3) People of Greater Punjab, kashmiris, konkanis, chitpavans, Coorgis and brahmins from everywhere are Nordindid. Nordindid isn't the same as irano-afghan although it's very similar. So nordindids dont form 0.000001% of India as some people like to claim.

4) Still, other ethnicities of India can have light skin or light eyes too just like a punjabi can be darkskinned too.

5) Blond hair doesnt exist in India

6) The percentage of light eyes in the groups i mentioned isnt as less as some people are saying.

7) Indo-aryan is a term coined by the CIA which means NOTHING.

8) Pathans=pashtuns=afghans.

9) People in the northwest subcontinent are not indigenous to India. They are descended from various invaders and settlers.

10) People in bollywood(aishwarya and Hrithik included) look more indian than anything else(besides maybe afghan or pakistani). So saying that they are some sort of foreign nordic looking ppl is wrong.
Also, they might not look like the typical indian but they are fairly typical for their communties. Amrita Rao looks like any other Saraswat Brahmin, Aishwarya Rai is just another light eyed Mangalorean, Aditi Govitrikar and Madhuri Dixit look like other Chitpavans etc.

11) There isn't just one indian look. Oriental looks are as indian as the brown skinned, big eyed look that people say is stereotypically indian.



Rollo,
  You are as clueless as Telde. 

  a) Pakistan has no history prior to 1947.
  b) Cities of Pakistan were all ruled by Hindus. Dig thru the earlier discussions of this topic. Look for my posts.
  c) Phenotype variation exists in all humanity. You will find people with 6 fingers and other "strangeness". This does not mean you can conclude anything about them. Genetics is a little more involvled then what people look like and how fair they are.  So read up some genetics before you make your silly arguments.
  AND Once again: Indians in northwest India, or Chitpavans have nothing to do with tribes outside of India.  Read the links provided earlier in the discussion.

-Digs
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I thought Garima Parnami was from UP, and not Bihar.  Got a link to show that she's from Bihar? ;)  A lot of UPites and Biharis share the same last names and can also share the same castes (like Kayasthas and Rajputs). Let me remind people that some Rajputs established themselves in other states centuries ago (like UP, Bihar, MP, Gujarat, etc), after migrating out of Rajasthan.   UP supposedly has the highest amount of Rajputs right now. 
 
  Thanks for the information on Priyanka only being a quarter South Indian, but isn't it amazing how that small percentage heavily shows up on her face?  ;)  That was my point earlier to TeldeInduz.   When it comes to mixed Indians, it's not as blatant as how it is with mulatto kids or Eurasians.   Inter-caste Indians look like any other Indian, and even tend to favor one parent more than the other. 
 
 Regarding Salman Khan's Marathi mother, have you seen her or seen what her family looks like?   I'm not talking about you in particular, but  it kind of irks me when some people make assumptions on mixed breeds without seeing the parents.   I know a half-North Indian/half-South Indian guy, who fits the "tall, light-skinned and sharp-featured" concept perfectly.  Guess where he gets his looks from?  THE SOUTH INDIAN FATHER.   His Rajasthani mother is short, tanned, and more rounded-featured.  The vast majority of people tell him "Oh....it's because you're half-North Indian.   That's why you're tall and light."  WTF????  Boy, they must feel owned when they see what his parents look like.    This is off-topic, but John Abraham's South Indian father is also rumored to be tall.  I'm sure most self-haters would be quick to attribute that characteristic to his Parsi mother. LOL
 
 


Edited by RajputGirl - 30-Jul-2006 at 07:40
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The people in Banaras are dark, small and the area is overpopulated. But Shimla is less crowded, people are bigger in terms of height and weight and you can see people on the street with green eyes.
 
 
I have two friends from the mountainous areas (Himachal Pradesh and Uttranchal), and they told me that people in these states tend to be short, due to higher altitude.  Although height can vary a lot, and can depend on so many factors.  I'm not a huge fan of correlating one's height with what part of India they're from.  Obviously, the street people in Banaras, UP are going to be shorter and skinnier, because of their diet, their polluted environment, the fact that they're poor, etc.     
 
Compare the second-generation Banaras people in America, and you will see a difference.  A lot of the guys are over 6 ft, and don't have a problem building muscle mass.  America has a different environment and diet. 
 
Regarding my earlier comments about Pakstanis, I wasn't talking about EVERY Pakistani. I was only talking about those, who think similar to TeldeInduz.   
 
  You're right that a lot of second-generation Indian Punjabis abroad, unfortunately, like to perpetuate that they are genetically different from even other North Indians geographically below them.  It's not just a Pakistani thing.    The old Punjab (the one that included Haryana and HP) literally bordered a good chunk of UP and Rajasthan,  yet a deluded Punjabi on RateDesi.com will claim that UPites and Rajasthanis are "short, dark and ugly."     Not to mention that some Punjabis have roots to other states.  The Punjabi Rajputs came from Rajasthan, like  Rajput's mother's family.  Some people even say the Sikh Jatts have roots to Rajasthan, or were former Rajputs who converted to Sikhism.  Some Punjabi Brahmins claim to trace their ancestry back to UP (The Brahmin heartland), while others also claim that the Banias in Punjab aren't native Punjabis.  However, in India, I don't hear this kind of nonsense.  Look at how many Punjabi actors have married South Indian, Bengali, Gujarati and Marathi women.   
 
 
Another thing to think about is that a lot of Sikhs still maintain their caste identity, which is equivalent to non-Brahmin Hindu castes.  There are Sikh Khatris, Rajputs, and Aroras, just like they're Hindu Khatris, Rajputs, Aroras.  Saying that thin noses are mainly found among "Sikhs and Brahmins" is contradictory.  Why?  Because, these Sikhs are descended from non-Brahmin castes.  How are they different from other Hindu Khatris, Aroras, Rajputs, etc?  
 
What I mean by "Sikh Rajputs," is people whose Rajasthani Hindu ancestors converted to Sikhism. I don't know too much about Sikh Rajputs, but that's my guess about their origin. 
 


Edited by RajputGirl - 30-Jul-2006 at 17:03
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edit.

Edited by RajputGirl - 30-Jul-2006 at 17:03
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Posts: 28 		  Quote rollopollo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 13:38
Originally posted by RajputGirl

I thought Garima Parnami was from UP, and not Bihar.  Got a link to show that she's from Bihar? ;)  A lot of UPites and Biharis share the same last names and can also share the same castes (like Kayasthas and Rajputs). Let me remind people that some Rajputs established themselves in other states centuries ago (like UP, Bihar, MP, Gujarat, etc), after migrating out of Rajasthan.   UP supposedly has the highest amount of Rajputs right now. 
 
well then shes from UP. i always get UP and Bihar mixed up.
 
  Thanks for the information on Priyanka only being a quarter South Indian, but isn't it amazing how that small percentage heavily shows up on her face?  ;)  That was my point earlier to TeldeInduz.   When it comes to mixed Indians, it's not as blatant as how it is with mulatto kids or Eurasians.   Inter-caste Indians look like any other Indian, and even tend to favor one parent more than the other. 
 
yeah her other half is punjabi and 1/4 kashmiri. amazing isnt it LOL
 
 
 Regarding Salman Khan's Marathi mother, have you seen her or seen what her family looks like?   I'm not talking about you in particular, but  it kind of irks me when some people make assumptions on mixed breeds without seeing the parents.   I know a half-North Indian/half-South Indian guy, who fits the "tall, light-skinned and sharp-featured" concept perfectly.  Guess where he gets his looks from?  THE SOUTH INDIAN FATHER.   His Rajasthani mother is short, tanned, and more rounded-featured.  The vast majority of people tell him "Oh....it's because you're half-North Indian.   That's why you're tall and light."  WTF????  Boy, they must feel owned when they see what his parents look like.    This is off-topic, but John Abraham's South Indian father is also rumored to be tall.  I'm sure most self-haters would be quick to attribute that characteristic to his Parsi mother. LOL
 
 
yes. malu people(john abraham's father) are known to be tall. at least that's what a south indian guy told me.
 
i have pictures of Salman Khan's parents. i'll post  them later on.
 
 
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Posts: 28 		  Quote rollopollo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 13:48
 
 
well true but Shimla's a city and so is Banaras. my point was that even in India you can see a lot of diversity. Of course there might be many people in UP who are really tall or very built but if you generalize a lot, the state to state stereotype is that the farthern northeast you go people get smaller and mongoloid and the farther northwest you go people get lighter skinned and bigger in built.
 
 
 
 
  You're right that a lot of second-generation Indian Punjabis abroad, unfortunately, like to perpetuate that they are genetically different from even other North Indians geographically below them.  It's not just a Pakistani thing.    The old Punjab (the one that included Haryana and HP) literally bordered a good chunk of UP and Rajasthan,  yet a deluded Punjabi on RateDesi.com will claim that UPites and Rajasthanis are "short, dark and ugly."     Not to mention that some Punjabis have roots to other states.  The Punjabi Rajputs came from Rajasthan, like  Rajput's mother's family.  Some people even say the Sikh Jatts have roots to Rajasthan, or were former Rajputs who converted to Sikhism.  Some Punjabi Brahmins claim to trace their ancestry back to UP (The Brahmin heartland), while others also claim that the Banias in Punjab aren't native Punjabis.  However, in India, I don't hear this kind of nonsense.  Look at how many Punjabi actors have married South Indian, Bengali, Gujarati and Marathi women.   
 
 
There are very few SIkh Rajputs. I think most of the Punjabi rajputs are in Pakistan. Feel free to correct me.
And in Pakistan rajputs and Jatts are very mixed unlike in the Indian punjab where they cling on to their tribal roots.
 
 
 
Another thing to think about is that a lot of Sikhs still maintain their caste identity, which is equivalent to non-Brahmin Hindu castes.  There are Sikh Khatris, Rajputs, and Aroras, just like they're Hindu Khatris, Rajputs, Aroras.  Saying that thin noses are mainly found among "Sikhs and Brahmins" is contradictory.  Why?  Because, these Sikhs are descended from non-Brahmin castes.  How are they different from other Hindu Khatris, Aroras, Rajputs, etc?  
 
Most Punjabis are from the second caste of the Kshatriyas.  A recent study showed that its the Kshatriyas that have more foreign genetics than the Brahmins which makes sense since the Kshatriyas are called the warrior caste.
 
 


Edited by rollopollo - 30-Jul-2006 at 13:49
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she has classicaly indian features: huge eyes, aquiline nose(slightly hooked), rounded face and full lips
 
Thank you!  That was exactly my point earlier.   Almost all of the famous Indian actressses had these same features, from Hema Malini, SriDevi, Rekha, VjyanthiMala, Jaya Badhuri, Divya Bharti, etc........ Put Aishwarya Rai next to a Swedish model. You will still see a huge difference in facial features. 
 
There are very few SIkh Rajputs. I think most of the Punjabi rajputs are in Pakistan. Feel free to correct me.
And in Pakistan rajputs and Jatts are very mixed unlike in the Indian punjab where they cling on to their tribal roots.
 
The Punjab in India has the least amount of Rajputs, so Sikh Rajputs probably are a minority.  There are some Hindu Rajputs in Punjab as well, but Hindus are also a minority in Punjab.  
 
A recent study showed that its the Kshatriyas that have more foreign genetics than the Brahmins which makes sense since the Kshatriyas are called the warrior caste.
 
  Some people correlate height with caste too, although it's not always true.    Regarding my comment about UP, Rajputs,  Jats (Jaats), Gujjars, and maybe the Brahmins in UP are stereotyped to be tall.    If you go to a UP Kayastha or Yadav wedding, you might have a lower chance of seeing tall people.      
 
 Even in Punjab, people stereotype the banias (merchant caste) and Aroras to be short.  If you took 100 short Punjabi banias to represent Punjab, it would be misleading. People would assume that most Punjabis are short.   But, take 100 Jatts and you might see a difference.    So, you can even break down the groups in each Indian state. 
 
That half-North Indian/half-South Indian boy's father is a Raju from AP.   The Rajus are also a warrior caste.  I think that they're the only warrior caste in the South, and are a minority.   Someone said that they have roots to Rajasthan too, but I have no legit proof for that. 
 
 
 
 


Edited by RajputGirl - 30-Jul-2006 at 18:07
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Posts: 857 		  Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 22:24
Originally posted by TeldeInduz

Originally posted by rollopollo

 
The eye colour is definitely bullsh*t. I've never met an Indian with genuine blue or green eyes (the odd one might exist but this might have been from some randy British troops). The only people from the subcontinent I've met in real life with blue or green eyes on a fairly large scale (10-20%) from the subcontinent have been Pathans.

 
Thats where i disagree. I know a lot of indians with light coloured eyes  in real life and even on the internet. Even bangladeshis and i did'nt know that was possible. Not on a large scale though, i dont want you thinking that 4 out of 10 indians have light eyes but since i live around Sikh Punjabis i see quite a few who have green or green-grey eyes. Pure blue is extremely rare though. I think i've seen maybe 4 Indians in real life with pure blue eyes.
Its common knowlede that the British took home the kids that looked British and left the indian looking ones to rot in the streets of India. (Anglo Indians were considered worse than untouchables).
 
I'll try and summarize all this.
 
This is all wrong. You might know people with coloured contact lenses or even a couple with genuine fair eyes, but it is very rare to find these sorts of eye colours in India. Bangladeshis LOL do not have fair eyes or hairs. It is definitely not 4 out of 10, more like 1 out of a 1000.
 
A small proportion of Anglo Indians do have fair eyes, but this is a very small portion of the Indian population, and this cannot be described as Indian looks if you're trying to describe it. 
 
Originally posted by RolloPollo

Pathan is a term made by indians.  Technically it means the same thing and the pashtuns living in FATA(Pakistan) havent mixed with punjabis at all.

 
Pathan was made by the British, but the Indians use it, and when talking in Urdu or English it's a lot easier to say than Pakkkkkhhtun. 
 
Originally posted by Rollopollo

Also, the pictures you posted of the people in Uttaranchal and Himachal Pradesh aren't closeups. How can you determine that they have brown eyes or blue?

 
Uttaranchal and Himachal Pradesh people on the whole have brown eyes. You wont find any other colours unless you look hard.
 
People from Himachal Pradesh generally have some Mongolian ancestry so you won't find many non brown eyes there.
 
 


Edited by TeldeInduz - 30-Jul-2006 at 22:25
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Posts: 857 		  Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 23:22
Originally posted by rollopollo

Originally posted by TeldeInduz


Having the name Kapoor doesnt mean anything if you think about it. It's much like the name Khan doesnt mean Pathan (though a lot have some Pashtun ancestry in this case).

wrong. Khan, Singh and Sharma are names that dont have much significance but names like Kapoor, Afridi and Durrani show ancestry and heritage.

 
Everyone is pretty mixed amongst the Pashtun tribes. Names dont mean very much except which tribe you identify with.
 
Originally posted by RolloPollo

Yes there are muslim patels from Gujarat but Punjabi Patels don't exist. 
 
The Punjabi Patels usually are Kurni Kshatriya.
 
 
Originally posted by RolloPollo

No, most people in Himachal Pradesh are lightskinned. See Preity Zinta who is fairer than most indians but very very typical for Himachal Pradesh in terms of her pigmentation. But then even Preity zinta is considered swarthy by European standards if that's what you're comparing her to.

If you disagree with this, then you're disagreeing with most racial experts.

http://www.flonnet.com/fl2024/images/20031205005501603.jpg
Most people would classify the men in these pictures as Nordindid especially the two in the back right and the one with the glasses.

 
LOL No, not Norindid. But I dont disagree that people from Himachal Pradesh are lighter skinned than most Indians due to their Mongolian ancestry generally.

Originally posted by RolloPollo

her features!  paint her brown andd then compare her to other indians.
She has had NO nosejobs, her mother has the same slightly hooked nose and her skin isn't bleached. Bleached skin is rough looking while Aishwarya has very smooth skin and countless paparazzi pictures have proven that her eyes are naturally grey-green. If you want me to post pictures to prove my point just ask.

She is VERY typical of Coorgis from the Mangalore coast. Just as Imran Khan isn't typical for Pakistanis in general but he's quite typical for Pashtuns see what i'm getting at?

 
I dont think Aishwarya Rai is typical of Coorgis in the slightest. Most Coorgis do not have blue eyes, even if she genuinely doesnt wear contacts which I doubt. Sure, prove she has natural grey-green eyes. I guess I hear so much about Aishwarya Rai as proof by Indians, that India has fair amounts of fair eyes, that this example comes up so much. Even if they're genuine, it's still in no way any kind of typical Indian look.
 

Originally posted by RolloPollo

Her nose is very typical of Coorgis. Coorgis are different looking than the rest of South India as i've mentioned before.
 
Her nose might be, but Coorgis form a very small proportion of the Indian population, and most of them do not look like even North India. I'm sure that even most Coorgis have been assimilated into the other Brahmin castes by now anyway.
 
Originally posted by Rollopollo

You have a very stereotypical view of indians.
 
I just know what Indians look like. You should know I've been to Pakistani Punjab, I know what the people look like on average. You can find a couple of fair eyes, but if anything India will not have as many as even this area, because you're heading Southwards into the heat.
 
 
Same with someone like Aishwarya Rai, her look might be uncommon for India but take a trip down south to Coorg and you'll see many lookalikes. One of my friend said that Aishwarya isn't as pretty as other Coorgi girls who have similar features.
 
Look, this is bull. Coorgi people on the whole do not have blue or green eyes or whatever like Aishwarya Rai - even if she has them or not. It is not even typical of that area - though most Coorgis are lighter skinned on average than non-Coorgi Indians.
 
Kodavas are of Greek descent
A Coorgi lady in traditional dress

The Indian Wedding



Edited by TeldeInduz - 30-Jul-2006 at 23:24
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Originally posted by rollopollo

Originally posted by TeldeInduz

Even if she is Tamil, she is not what your average Tamil looks like without hair colouring or lighting. If you want to see Tamils, look at the Sri Lankan cricket team

why take a sri lankan when you can look at indian tamils. and what makes you think she's tamil? she could be a malaylee too. And YES she does look typical for AT LEAST tamil brahmins even though tamil brahmins tend to be much much lighter skinned than that girl.

Look here: a tamil leper from India. She has the same skin tone and slim nose as that girl so that makes me think slim noses aren't very uncommon in South India contrary to what people say. hhmmm
 

 
Slim noses are not uncommon in India or South India. I dont think I said they were uncommon. Tamil Brahmins are also quite dark, they might be slightly lighter than a tamil outcaste, but Tamil Brahmins are still dark for India.
 
Here's some pictures of Tamil Brahmins.
 
 
Originally posted by Rollopollo

Originally posted by TeldeInduz


I never said they arent Indian, but those features would perhaps be found mainly in the Brahmin caste or Sikhs, which form about 6% of the Indian population. The other 94% dont look anything like it.

i've show you a south indian leper with those features, Rajput girl posted a regular girl(shes a makeup artist in the US btw). What else do we have to do to prove to you that you're wrong?

 
I cant see the leper photo. But perhaps you still dont understand what I'm saying - that you do get Indians with thin noses, even some with fairly light skin, but at least the light skin is in a minority. I'd say perhaps the thin noses are also, though thin noses can be found in India undoubtedly. A thin nose isnt a standard Indian nose, I think, as it's not typical IndoBrachid or Tamil.
 
Originally posted by RolloPollo

Originally posted by TeldeInduz


Racial Type A would fit for Rajputs etc, some Sikhs would be racial C as well. Racial type A might fit the face structure of the actresses you put up, though I'm not sure the nose matches up so they're probably more C, but even then these I think are in the upper castes of the North West of the country.


As you can tell the nordindids extend deep into UP which has the largest population in India. No and no. As your map illustrates Rajasthan is populated by Nordindids so you just contradicted yourself ;)

 
I think the map's referring to Sikhs generally in the NorthWest of India - that's why it says Sikh. I dont think it's referring to the majority of Uttar Pradesh.
 
Originally posted by RolloPollo

Northwest Indians look like the people in Bollywood just because the majority of the people working in the industry are from the area of Greater Punjab. The other indians have their own industry. Heard of the Bhojpuri films? Bengali films? Tollywood?
 
Majority dont seem to be Punjabi. There's lots of half castes and people from all over the place, and most Northwest Indians dont really look like the people from Bollywood either. 


Edited by TeldeInduz - 31-Jul-2006 at 00:06
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Originally posted by rollopollo

[QUOTE=Anujkhamar]

3) People of Greater Punjab, kashmiris, konkanis, chitpavans, Coorgis and brahmins from everywhere are Nordindid. Nordindid isn't the same as irano-afghan although it's very similar. So nordindids dont form 0.000001% of India as some people like to claim.
 
 
LOL As you very well know (or dont know), Konkanis, Chitpavans, Coorgis are the same group, just a different name. Also, these Coorgis are not NordIndid.
 
Brahmins everywhere are definitely not NordIndid, the majority are probably lighters skinned than the outcastes in the region, but they're not NordIndid except a few perhaps from Uttar Pradesh. Some Sikhs perhaps in India might be also. So they do form about 0.00000001% of the Indian population Wink.


Edited by TeldeInduz - 31-Jul-2006 at 00:07
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Originally posted by Anujkhamar

Originally posted by rollopollo

2) Pakistan and part of India(the northwest) have a similar history. So saying all indians are like all Pakistanis is a generalization. For ex. a paki from punjab or NWFP has nothing to do with a bengali or a person from Orissa.

Agreed in full. Of course a Pakistani will have almost nothing to do with someone from Orissa (history wise), apart from under the Mauryan Empire. But then again, someone from Gujarat shares near to no history with someone in Tamil Nadu.

 

But the fact remains that an Indian can share his history with a Pakistani. The further you get from the border on both sides the less history they share.

 
I dont think you can say this so easily. You're missing out the location of the Saraswasti River (now doesnt exist). This seemed like at least a cultural boundary in Vedic times, which must have existed since, as the Dharma Sutras point out. I dont think you can find too many times when even East of the Sarawasti was a part of the same Empire as Pakistan (or perhaps you could, but the Sarawasti seems to be a religious, cultural and also a country boundary.
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Originally posted by TeldeInduz

 
 
 
Brahmins everywhere are definitely not NordIndid, the majority are probably lighters skinned than the outcastes in the region, but they're not NordIndid except a few perhaps from Uttar Pradesh. Some Sikhs perhaps in India might be also. So they do form about 0.00000001% of the Indian population Wink.
 
That's where you're wrong. Nordindid=Sikh for the most part. I spent some time reading some race forums(sooooo boring omg) but that was the general consensus among the more educated ones. The maps you posted confirmed that and so did the 1931 census of India.
 
About the Sikhs:
 
Sikhs have Iranid influence but are pred. Nordindid with minor (Gracil-) Indid and very slight Indobrachid/Melanid/Weddid)
 
About the Coorgis, the pictures you posted don't prove anything other than the fact that Coorgis are lighterskinned than other South Indians on average. How can you tell what their eye colour is??
 
From the 1931 census:
"On the Malabar coast are instances of pale blue and grey eyes combined with a dark complexion."
 
 
I dont know what the British idea of instances is, it would have been better if they had actual percentages like they have of Europe but the number of blue eyes in the Malabar Coast is enough to distinguish them from the rest of the population of South India..
 
E. Thurston wrote in his Castes and Tribes of Southern India (1955-56),
" Both men and women of the Bunt community are among the comeliest of Asiatic races."
 
 
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Posts: 28 		  Quote rollopollo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 10:59
Originally posted by TeldeInduz

 
 
This is all wrong. You might know people with coloured contact lenses or even a couple with genuine fair eyes, but it is very rare to find these sorts of eye colours in India. Bangladeshis LOL do not have fair eyes or hairs. It is definitely not 4 out of 10, more like 1 out of a 1000.
 
A small proportion of Anglo Indians do have fair eyes, but this is a very small portion of the Indian population, and this cannot be described as Indian looks if you're trying to describe it. 
 
 
I know the difference between coloured contacts and real light eyes unlike you who can't tell if Ashwaria's eyes are real or not LOL I've said this before and i live among Sikhs and light eyes are DEFINITELY not as rare as even what you read in these censuses and articles. Blue eyes are rare but green and hazel are definitely not uncommon.
 
You missed my point about bangladeshis. I'm not saying its very common for them, (in fact i thought they were all dark, darkeyed and short before i met them) but light eyes DO exist among them unlike what articles will tell you. For ex. none of the census/articles even mention the existence of light eyes among bengalis but looking at their ex-primeminister(who has blue-green eyes), this random kid from Sanargaon, Bangladesh
and reading this article:
 
"Home Affairs Minister Radzi Sheikh Ahmad said Bangladesh workers were still spotted on construction sites and in restaurants despite a ban on their employment two years ago over concerns they were causing "social problems". "They have blue eyes and look like Hindi film actors and they create social problems here," Radzi was quoted as saying by the New Straits Times of the reason for the ban.... Hindi films are popular amongst Malaysian women, as are handsome male Bollywood film stars. [Link]"
 
not to mention the bollywood actresses Rani Mukherjee and Rakhee who both have hazel eyes, its obvious that at least 1% of Bangladesh has light eyes not .00001%.
 
I wasnt even talking about the angloindians so why mention them? Besides they have very diluted anglo blood since the English took back their fairer offsprings.
A typical Angloindian these days:(they have less than 1/8 anglo blood)
 
 
 
Uttaranchal and Himachal Pradesh people on the whole have brown eyes. You wont find any other colours unless you look hard.
 
People from Himachal Pradesh generally have some Mongolian ancestry so you won't find many non brown eyes there.
 
 
 
Himachal Pradesh? The percentage of light coloured eyes in Himachal Pradesh is definitely not less but lets just agree to disagree since you're so stubborn in your views. Again, Himachal Pradesh people are NOT mongolian LOL where do you come up with this stuff?
Most people in Himachal Pradesh are Rajputs not mongolians. You're confusing  the Tibetans who are settled in Himachal Pradesh for mongolians.

"Castes

The Rajputs are in a majority in Himachal. They are the descendants of immigrant Rajputs who came here to establish small princely states or who were driven to the hills by the Muslim invaders. The earlier inhabitants, the Khasia (descendants of the Khasas) joined the Rajputs and adopted some of their sub-castes. But a certain distance has always persisted in their social relationship. Rajputs are mostly landed people and are engaged in agriculture. They are also good soldiers. In relation to its population Himachal has contributed the maximum number of Rajputs to the Indian army. The Rajputs soldiers from Kangra and Hamispur areas are well known for their qualities of bravery and loyalty. Kotoch, Bana, Pathaniya and Baliriye are the main branches of the Rajputs in the area. The Kanait Rajputs are considered a little below these and they have taken to farming.

The Brahmins, who were the priests of Rajputs are the second largest group. Shrotriyas, the Dixit, the Nagas, the Panch Karmas and the Padhes are some prominent Brahmin branches. They have more influence in the lower hills than in the higher regions.

The Ghirats are next in number. They are the descendants of Kirats according to some sources. But according to ethnographic evidence they are of Indo-Aryan origin. They are farmers.

Mahajans and Soods, the business communities are sprinkled all over. They wield great influence even though they are a small minority. They have a shop in almost every village right up to the Tibetan border. Traditionally they used to be the main exporters and importers of the products in the state. Now co-operatives and corporations are taking up their role.

Chahang, Saini etc are other castes where people are professional farmers. The Ahirs own windmills and catch fish. The Darai have settled along the river Beas. Their forefathers were boatmen. Lohar (ironsmiths), Tarkhan (carpenter), Nai (barbers), Dusali, Doomna, Chamar (cobblers) and Julahas (weavers) follow their paternal professions. 

The educated in these castes are moving towards other professions and also into farming. The caste system has weakened and there is a greater intermingling among the people in the society. The untouchables are being specially protected and helped by the government by special acts. A few peasant families belong to the backward classes. All these castes are divided into the categories of Kachha, Pakka, Nagar Kotiya and Bhatedu."
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Posts: 857 		  Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 11:20
Originally posted by rollopollo

About the Sikhs:
 
Sikhs have Iranid influence but are pred. Nordindid with minor (Gracil-) Indid and very slight Indobrachid/Melanid/Weddid)
 
Just because someone says it on a forum, doesnt mean it's true, though I happen to think quite a few Sikhs would be NordIndid, the predominant part is just one person's impression by the looks of it, who might just be a Sikh.
 
Originally posted by RolloPollo

About the Coorgis, the pictures you posted don't prove anything other than the fact that Coorgis are lighterskinned than other South Indians on average. How can you tell what their eye colour is??
 
I'm talking of skin colour in those pictures on the whole. You're saying that all Coorgis are white skinned like Aishwarya Rai, and they're clearly not. You get some who are white skinned like that, not many, and I suspect yet fewer with fair eyes. You can see at least two Coorgis on there with very brown, almost black eyes, and for the most part anything more than swarthy skin comes with fair eyes. Evolution would not create dark skinned people with fair eyes.
 
From the 1931 census:
"On the Malabar coast are instances of pale blue and grey eyes combined with a dark complexion."
 
I dont know what the British idea of instances is, it would have been better if they had actual percentages like they have of Europe but the number of blue eyes in the Malabar Coast is enough to distinguish them from the rest of the population of South India..
 
Yes, instances, meaning one or two, most likely less than the numbers of Sikhs 
 
If you look at the same census the British describe the Sikhs and the Pathans and Northern Areas as
 
Another long-headed strain with comparatively lower but longer head and tall stature and possessing a long face and prominent narrow long nose. It its purest form it is found in the North-west Himalayan tribes like the Kaffirs and the Pathan where the skin colour is predominantly of a rosy white tint and an appreciable number have grey-blue eyes and chestnut hair. In the plains of Northern India, among the Sikhs of the Punjab and the Brahmin of the U.P. the skin colour changes to a light transparent brown. Here also there is a small proportion of people having light eyes and brownish hair. Among this type also the hair is usually straight and the pilous system well developed.
 
Appreciable > Small number > Instances


Edited by TeldeInduz - 31-Jul-2006 at 11:26
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I dont think Aishwarya Rai is typical of Coorgis in the slightest. Most Coorgis do not have blue eyes, even if she genuinely doesnt wear contacts which I doubt. Sure, prove she has natural grey-green eyes. I guess I hear so much about Aishwarya Rai as proof by Indians, that India has fair amounts of fair eyes, that this example comes up so much. Even if they're genuine, it's still in no way any kind of typical Indian look.
Unless you've been to Coorg i dont think you're in the position to talk with so much authority. Of course most Coorgis dont have blue eyes but blue eyes can be found among them and they are RELATIVELY more common among them than other south indians.
 
Paris Hilton's  blue contacts
 
Aishwarya's eyes
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Posts: 28 		  Quote rollopollo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 11:39
Originally posted by TeldeInduz

 
Just because someone says it on a forum, doesnt mean it's true, though I happen to think quite a few Sikhs would be NordIndid, the predominant part is just one person's impression by the looks of it, who might just be a Sikh.
 
 
 
And just because you say they aren't doesnt make it true either. Wink
 
 
Evolution would not create dark skinned people with fair eyes.
 
"
"On the Malabar coast are instances of pale blue and grey eyes combined with a dark complexion." "
 
 
Yes, instances, meaning one or two, most likely less than the numbers of Sikhs 
 
 ok sure. I'm positive that the British saw 2 coorgis with blue eyes and included that observation in the census. LOL 
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Posts: 857 		  Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 11:53
Originally posted by rollopollo

Originally posted by TeldeInduz

 
 
This is all wrong. You might know people with coloured contact lenses or even a couple with genuine fair eyes, but it is very rare to find these sorts of eye colours in India. Bangladeshis LOL do not have fair eyes or hairs. It is definitely not 4 out of 10, more like 1 out of a 1000.
 
A small proportion of Anglo Indians do have fair eyes, but this is a very small portion of the Indian population, and this cannot be described as Indian looks if you're trying to describe it. 
 
I know the difference between coloured contacts and real light eyes unlike you who can't tell if Ashwaria's eyes are real or not LOL I've said this before and i live among Sikhs and light eyes are DEFINITELY not as rare as even what you read in these censuses and articles. Blue eyes are rare but green and hazel are definitely not uncommon.
 
I've seen quite a few and I've never seen one with them. Perhaps slightly hazel once.
 
Originally posted by RolloPollo

You missed my point about bangladeshis. I'm not saying its very common for them, (in fact i thought they were all dark, darkeyed and short before i met them) but light eyes DO exist among them unlike what articles will tell you. For ex. none of the census/articles even mention the existence of light eyes among bengalis but looking at their ex-primeminister(who has blue-green eyes), this random kid from Sanargaon, Bangladesh
and reading this article:
 
"Home Affairs Minister Radzi Sheikh Ahmad said Bangladesh workers were still spotted on construction sites and in restaurants despite a ban on their employment two years ago over concerns they were causing "social problems". "They have blue eyes and look like Hindi film actors and they create social problems here," Radzi was quoted as saying by the New Straits Times of the reason for the ban.... Hindi films are popular amongst Malaysian women, as are handsome male Bollywood film stars. [Link]"
 
The random kid photo was shown before as Indian, but now it's a Bangladeshi, no matter, this is just one instance, it is not a common feature there. That's why professional photographers take pictures of it.
 
Don't you think that Radzi was joking a bit when he said your second quote (which I also read before). How many average Bangladeshis look like Hindi film actors as he puts it? LOL 
 
 
not to mention the bollywood actresses Rani Mukherjee and Rakhee who both have hazel eyes, its obvious that at least 1% of Bangladesh has light eyes not .00001%.
 
Back to Bollywood examples I see LOL  
 
 
Uttaranchal and Himachal Pradesh people on the whole have brown eyes. You wont find any other colours unless you look hard.
 
People from Himachal Pradesh generally have some Mongolian ancestry so you won't find many non brown eyes there.
 
[QUOTE]
Himachal Pradesh? The percentage of light coloured eyes in Himachal Pradesh is definitely not less but lets just agree to disagree since you're so stubborn in your views. Again, Himachal Pradesh people are NOT mongolian LOL where do you come up with this stuff?
Most people in Himachal Pradesh are Rajputs not mongolians. You're confusing  the Tibetans who are settled in Himachal Pradesh for mongolians.
 
Rajputs can't have Mongolian ancestry?
 
I posted some proof of Himachal Pradesh Mongolian ancestry people before. All you posted is some Indian website saying that the people are Rajput (whatever that means) 
 
(the orange is Mongolian/Oriental).
 


Edited by TeldeInduz - 31-Jul-2006 at 13:33
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Posts: 857 		  Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 12:04
Originally posted by rollopollo

I dont think Aishwarya Rai is typical of Coorgis in the slightest. Most Coorgis do not have blue eyes, even if she genuinely doesnt wear contacts which I doubt. Sure, prove she has natural grey-green eyes. I guess I hear so much about Aishwarya Rai as proof by Indians, that India has fair amounts of fair eyes, that this example comes up so much. Even if they're genuine, it's still in no way any kind of typical Indian look.
Unless you've been to Coorg i dont think you're in the position to talk with so much authority. Of course most Coorgis dont have blue eyes but blue eyes can be found among them and they are RELATIVELY more common among them than other south indians.
 
Paris Hilton's  blue contacts
 
Aishwarya's eyes
 
I totally agree with you that the first pair or eyes are fake, the second pair of eyes are genuine. Anyone who gos to the trouble of zooming into pictures just to prove genuine eye color is proof enough that it's not very common LOL But Aishwarya Rai's eyes dont always look like that, the left one here looks a bit like the first picture you posted.  
 
Aishwarya Rai - aishwarya_rai_007 
 


Edited by TeldeInduz - 31-Jul-2006 at 13:21
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Posts: 28 		  Quote rollopollo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 12:36
i hope you know there's a difference between  between airbrushed pictures and candids.
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