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Balain d Ibelin
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Topic: Your Worst and Best Byzantine Emperor? Posted: 13-Jun-2007 at 04:41 |
BY your Opinion, what is your Worst and Best Byzantine Emperors?
My list would be:
Best:
1. Justinian I
2. Alexius I Komnenos
3. Constantine XI
Worst:
1. Romanos IV Diogenes
2. Justinian II
Please, only include Emperor who reigns after the West Roman Empire falls.
Edited by Balian d'Ibelin - 13-Jun-2007 at 04:42
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"Good quality will be known among your enemies, before you ever met them my friend"Trobadourre de Crusadier Crux
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Knights
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Posted: 13-Jun-2007 at 04:53 |
Best: - Alexios I Komnenos - Herakleios - Basil II - Justinian I - Nikephoros I - John Tzimiskes
Worst: - Flavius Phocas - Nikephoros III - Romanos IV
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Athanasios
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Posted: 19-Jun-2007 at 14:24 |
Romanos IV Diogenes as worst?! Why? because he tried to restore a dream while he was betrayed from all the sides and finally lost a regional battle which cost him his life ? No, he was an original Byzantine emperor who made the best for his empire, such a wronged personality and judged by history whith cruelty... For me , he was the most "human" emperor and whenever i think about his reign , i get emotional...
as for the best...
1.Basil II
2.Heraclius
3.Ioannes II Komnenos
4.Justinianus
5.Constantinus I
6.Julianus
worst: 1.Phocas
2.Irene the Athenean(which was half a Chazar if i'm not mistaken...)
3.Aggelidian dynasty(all this handycapped ganc which <<<<ruled>>>> the Byzantine empire until 1204)
4. Theodora(whith or whithout partner)
5. John V palaeologos (i could peek a lot from the Palaeologian dynasty but i choose him, as the last step to downfall)
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eaglecap
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Posted: 19-Jun-2007 at 15:59 |
Constantine XI was great but the circumstances of his time were not. If he had been Emperor any other time he would have benefited the empire greatly. The odds were against him in 1453 with the sad loss of Contantinople to the invading Ottoman Turkish armies.
Basil the Bulgar slayer was also a great leader but blinding the enemy troops was way too extreme. Gen. Sherman once said, during the American Civil war, 'War is Hell!!"
John the good son of Alexos is one of my favorites as well.
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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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xristar
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Posted: 19-Jun-2007 at 16:07 |
but blinding the enemy troops was way too extreme. |
Not really. At that age, he could have very easily executed al of them. -but he didn't.
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Victory needs none.
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Athanasios
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Posted: 19-Jun-2007 at 16:17 |
It was a symbolic action. It was the penalty for those who claimed the throne from the legal emperor. I bet that if tzar samuil have fought in the battlefield-as the Byzantine emperor did- then he would be the only one who would get blinded(or maybe not, who knows?). In the today's standarts, it is a sadistic action(blinding 14000 christians one by one-of course not the Emperor himself -) but these actions were common in the middle ages . I think that it was given too much gravity to this certain action because it is connected with the collapse of the first bulgarian empire.
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eaglecap
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Posted: 20-Jun-2007 at 00:16 |
I understand the reason why in that period but by my modern standards it seems barbaric and cruel but it did send a clear message to the Turkic/Salvic Bulgars
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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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Guests
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Posted: 03-Jul-2007 at 17:02 |
Best : 1 .Alexios Komnenos
Worst : Michael VIII - He simply give up the eastern part of the empire
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 03-Jul-2007 at 20:12 |
Best: Basil II, Leo III, Constantine XI
Worst: Flavius Phocas, Alexius III, John V
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Herschel
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Posted: 03-Jul-2007 at 21:09 |
Best:
- John II
- Zeno
- Manuel II
- Theodore I of Nicaea
Worst:
- Flavius Phocas
- Michael VII
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rider
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Posted: 04-Jul-2007 at 03:03 |
Theophilus, Nikephoros Phokas, Leon IV are my favourite good ones, although I can't deny Heraclius (or someone very close to that name, since not using it, I've forgotten it) did a good job too. I can't agree with Justinian being an especially good one since he essentially brought up the downfall of the empire.
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Spartakus
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Posted: 04-Jul-2007 at 12:32 |
Heraclius fought back two powerfull enemies, in two different fronts, at the eve of destruction and at the same time managed to wisely retreat behind the Taurus mountains, securing the survival of the Empire against the Arab threat. He is by far the best Byzantine Emperor. Without him there would be no Byzantine Empire, even before the Arab Conquest.
Edited by Spartakus - 04-Jul-2007 at 12:39
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rider
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Posted: 04-Jul-2007 at 15:48 |
Well, since Justinian wasted so much resources, perhaps Heraclius wouldn't have had to fight the Sassanids so hard if there hadn't been a Justinian?
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Spartakus
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Posted: 04-Jul-2007 at 16:06 |
That's true yes. Justinian overexpanded, without having the proper forces or resources to actually hold the newly conquered lands.But let's not be so hard at him. I mean, he created an impressive network of fortresses in the Balkans, he re-organized the military as well as the judicial and other secteurs. In the meantime, Justinian fell victim of his calculations. He and his stuff believed that the money drawn from Italy in the form of taxes would , in a few years, cover the cost of the campaign and be enough for sustaining a strong military presence.Also, if we take a look at the forces he sent, we will see that they were quite few. In the end, he lacked the ability of longterm planning. That was his biggest disadvantage.
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--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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Justinian
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Posted: 06-Jul-2007 at 00:49 |
Well naturally I hold Justinian to be one of the better emperors, as much for his vision as for his accomplishments. Did he make it harder for future emperors? It's very likely, but I don't think the empire would have been better off if he hadn't ruled. Spartakus does a good job of exposing Justinians' weaknesses. Heraclius or perhaps Alexios Komnenos might get my vote.
Worst emperors?
Flavius Phocas lingers on the mind, some of the emperors who ruled between Basil II and Alexios Komnenos weren't exactly held up on a pedestal for future rulers to look to as an example. Alexios III is another one (the whole Angelos dynasty seemed like one disaster after another).
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rider
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Posted: 06-Jul-2007 at 03:37 |
It wasn't only Justinian. A lot was done by his generals who would have lived also without him. And I am not saying his legal doings weren't amazing, they were. I am just saying the Eastern conquests should have been left for some other state.
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Anton
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Posted: 06-Jul-2007 at 08:49 |
Originally posted by xristar
Not really. At that age, he could have very easily executed al of them. -but he didn't. |
Merciful Basil
Edited by Anton - 06-Jul-2007 at 10:56
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Anton
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Posted: 06-Jul-2007 at 08:51 |
Originally posted by Athanasios
but these actions were common in the middle ages . I think that it was given too much gravity to this certain action because it is connected with the collapse of the first bulgarian empire. |
These things were common but the number of blinded people is quite unusuall.
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Anton
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Posted: 06-Jul-2007 at 08:53 |
Originally posted by Athanasios
It was a symbolic action. It was the penalty for those who claimed the throne from the legal emperor. I bet that if tzar samuil have fought in the battlefield-as the Byzantine emperor did- then he would be the only one who would get blinded(or maybe not, who knows?) |
Hm.. I bet if Samuil have faught at that battle the only one who would be blinded is Basil II
Edited by Anton - 06-Jul-2007 at 08:54
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Liudovik_Nemski
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Posted: 06-Jul-2007 at 09:53 |
Originally posted by xristar
but blinding the enemy troops was way too extreme. |
Not really. At that age, he could have very easily executed al of them. -but he didn't. |
What do you chose: being killed instantly or living blind until the end of your "life"?And multiply the second by x12 000
Edited by Liudovik_Nemski - 06-Jul-2007 at 09:57
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