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European economy

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Majkes View Drop Down
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  Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: European economy
    Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 05:23
What were the reasons that most of eastern Europe was agricultural and the western part was quickly developing in trade and manufacturers and why there were exceptions on both parts like Bohemia and Śląsk on eastern part or Spain on western part?
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  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 08:25
Originally posted by Majkes

What were the reasons that most of eastern Europe was agricultural and the western part was quickly developing in trade and manufacturers and why there were exceptions on both parts like Bohemia and Śląsk on eastern part or Spain on western part?
Simple division of labour. Some country impoved its industry and needed food and raw materials. In other countries greatest landowners etc. had great income about selling raw materials to more industrialized countries. This increasing demand stabilized obsolote political structures.  Naturally they bought manufactured products from the more industrialized countries which caused gradual pauperization among the commoners.
 
The most spectacular and radical form of this division of labour is the colonization.
 
For Bohemia:
There was also a division of labour in the Habsburg Monarchy. Bohemia was the industrial centre, while Hungary was the agricultural centre.


Edited by Raider - 15-Aug-2006 at 08:26
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  Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 09:33
Originally posted by Raider

Originally posted by Majkes

What were the reasons that most of eastern Europe was agricultural and the western part was quickly developing in trade and manufacturers and why there were exceptions on both parts like Bohemia and Śląsk on eastern part or Spain on western part?
Simple division of labour. Some country impoved its industry and needed food and raw materials. In other countries greatest landowners etc. had great income about selling raw materials to more industrialized countries. This increasing demand stabilized obsolote political structures.  Naturally they bought manufactured products from the more industrialized countries which caused gradual pauperization among the commoners.
 
The most spectacular and radical form of this division of labour is the colonization.
 
For Bohemia:
There was also a division of labour in the Habsburg Monarchy. Bohemia was the industrial centre, while Hungary was the agricultural centre.
 
Yes I agree but why it was such a division on west and east? Why agriculture on the east and trade and manufacturers in the west. The better ground for agriculture is not the only answer. Why the Western Europe was developing quicker than Eastern. I'm sure that such conditions like the weather and geography were very important.
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 18:09

Spain was then no land for agriculture. It is mountainous and hilly. The vineyards and the olive groves arem uch more profitable for such territories. The same also for Italy.

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  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 02:46
Originally posted by Majkes

Yes I agree but why it was such a division on west and east? Why agriculture on the east and trade and manufacturers in the west. The better ground for agriculture is not the only answer. Why the Western Europe was developing quicker than Eastern. I'm sure that such conditions like the weather and geography were very important.
Well I can only guess.
1. The territories east to the Elbe river was peripherical region of Europe, they integrated around 1000 AD, when christian kingdoms appeared. Might be the "belated" social changes caused this. For example in Hungary a western style feudal state nevers exist. There were simply no time for such a transitory forms.  :)
2. These countries were out of colonization.
3. As "frontier territory" the continuous fight, and cultural change with non-western elements may had an impact also. For example Hungary fought continously (150 years) with the Ottomans its own territory. Then as a part of the Habsburg Empire the emperor willingly aid the stabilization of the division of labour. (Not because they were the bad guys, but they tried to create a unified, centralised state instead a set of states.)
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  Quote Richard XIII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 03:40
"I want to know God's thoughts...
...the rest are details."

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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 09:27
Richard XIII, there are rules that forbid posting only links. Your post has trespassed those.
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  Quote Richard XIII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 09:41
Sorry for this, but many times there are nobody to answer in a professional manner to a question. I found, in my humble opinion, a good link for this question. My contribution was to search.


Edited by Richard XIII - 16-Aug-2006 at 09:43
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  Quote Peter III Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 11:25
Throughout the mediterranean, there was no suitable land for large-scale food production(despite certain areas such as sicily). Food was often a scracity even to the higher classes of Spain, Italy, etc. and starving was a very real problem for many of the people throughout the Mediterranean(or at least it was more of a problem than to the north and northeast). So naturally, the people in Western Europe had to find something that would balance their economy, and that was trade.
 
Trade also became more suitable for the west because of the Mediterranean, which provided an important link to all the major cities and trade routes throughout Europe. Even though the east had its rivers that could be easily navigated, the rivers still could never accommodate the large amount of trade that the Mediterranean was known for(or the balance of large and small ships that could be seen in the Mediterranean, as mentioned by F. Braudel).
 
Finally, after the crusades new trade routes were forming in the Middle East to bring goods from Asia, further diminishing the importance of the River routes to the northeast. The new routes also provided even more trade for the Mediterranean as well, through the port cities of Sidon, Tyre, Alexandria, and Constantinople. All of these factors quickly diminished the trade routes in the east, and made way for an emconomic pursuit that would soon take control of the eastern economies, agriculture.


Edited by Peter III - 16-Aug-2006 at 11:29
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  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 06:12
The rise of the Mongols may also had an impact. Before the Mongol invasion there were wealthy trading cities in on eastern Hungary and so me says it was the richer half of the kingdom. After the Mongols these trade routs was ceased and Eastern Hungary is the poorer half of the country till today.
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 07:27
I like the point about the Mediterranean. It also applies to the coastal waters of the Atlantic, the Channel, the North Sea, the Baltic.
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  Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 08:07
Originally posted by Raider

The rise of the Mongols may also had an impact. Before the Mongol invasion there were wealthy trading cities in on eastern Hungary and so me says it was the richer half of the kingdom. After the Mongols these trade routs was ceased and Eastern Hungary is the poorer half of the country till today.
 
It was the same with Kievan Rus, also part of Poland was destroyed by Mongols but I think that Poland quite quickly recovered from this. I agree with Peter III that Eastern Europe after Crusades and discovering America was on the peripheries of the World and couldn't profit from colonies. Western Europe could have spent gained money on developing their countries of course in some part. Also I think food was cheaper than goods produced by Western Europe.
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  Quote Peter III Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 10:41

All very interesting points. I completely forgot about the Mongol Invasions and their impact on the east. And as some of you were saying, the colonization in the west would have further destroyed any important trade routes in the east.

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