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Seko
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Topic: Should the Caliphate be revived? Posted: 13-Oct-2005 at 21:50 |
The Khalifa is known as a successor to the Prophet. "The Ottoman sultans, however, kept the title until the last sultan, Muhammad VI, was deposed. He was succeeded briefly by a cousin, but in 1924 the caliphate was abolished by Ataturk. A year later Husayn ibn Ali, king of Arabia, proclaimed himself caliph, but he was forced to abdicate by Ibn Saud. Since then several pan-Islamic congresses have attempted to establish a rightful caliph." http://www.bartleby.com/65/ca/caliphat.html
"The Caliphate is the application of Messengership of Prophets (Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses until Jesus and Muhammad) as the institution to protect and order the Muslims according the Law of God (in the Quran and the Universe), with the structure imitating the structure of Heaven (Mulkiyah/Government) and Earth (Ummah/People)." http://www.yotor.com/wiki/en/ca/Caliph.htm
Since the death of Muhammed, moslems have been in conflict over his rightful successor. Factions split by following leaders of their choosing (or against their wishes). The cult of personality grew into a larger than life figure. With power to create laws and/or abort them. History has shown that a magnanimous leader attracts noble followers. A corrupt leader tends to become a tyrant who governs by ineptitude.. The Caliph, being human, continued this tradition.
Do we need a new Caliph? Depends on whom is asked. Those who want dictates from one body of thought would seem to appreciate a Caliph. One voice for the multitudes. Those who are personal in their faith may wish for private leadership would opt to have no manager betweeen themselves and God. Either way it is mix of personal need and/or mutual belonging.
Don't think this answers anything. It wasn't meant to. To each their own. Best wishes to all.
Edited by Seko
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OSMANLI
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Posted: 14-Oct-2005 at 10:59 |
Should the Caliph come back?
100%, yes
The Muslims need to wake up. one by one they are either being pysically destryed (iraq, afghanistan etc) or by subtle meens (Turkey-EU laws asking for "major cultural change") To see one of the advantages of a return of da caliph one should go to a Mosque. You will see people of many diffrent ethnicities coordinating in harmony. With out the Caliph one can see resentment between the Muslims against each other.
others who mentioned for him to be similer to the pope or for restraints to be put on his power are wrong. This is would be quite ironic if a 'halal' (lawfull) leader was installed but his powers were to be not that that the sharia (Islamic law)commands. thus being 'haram'(unlawfull)
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Posted: 14-Oct-2005 at 12:42 |
Turkey is a secular state. This is an unchangeable fact.
And what about non-muslim citizens of Turkey?
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OSMANLI
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Posted: 17-Oct-2005 at 09:16 |
non-muslims in Turkey?
should a country define its governing system based on a minority that is less than 1%?
Turkey has a secular system, agreed.
although the far majority claim to be Muslim. Those that are practising the faith is also on the increase.
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Posted: 17-Oct-2005 at 13:16 |
Should a country define its governing system based on a minority that is less than 1%?
Minority? Non-muslim Turks are minority in Turkey? I don't think so. Don't get me wrong. Of course they are fewer than the muslim Turks. But Turkey is a secular state, so there is no difference between muslim Turks and non-muslim ones.
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oTToMAn_TurK
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Posted: 17-Oct-2005 at 17:04 |
baris less then 1 percent is a minority, what u on about. Official statistics say 99.8% moslems in turkey.
obviuosly that does not meen they are all practising muslims. but they accept hz muhammed as the last prophet of Allah which means there muslims.
Edited by oTToMAn_TurK
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Either your a slave to what MADE-MAN
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Posted: 17-Oct-2005 at 18:08 |
but they accept hz muhammed as the last prophet of Allah which means there muslims.
How can you know? Religion is about a person's ideas, beliefs. It has nothing to do with the state. I have many non-muslim friends whose identities include "Religion: Islam" part.
People, are you sure you know what is "Secularism"? The Turkish state cannot seperate one person from another just because of his religion.
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oTToMAn_TurK
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Posted: 18-Oct-2005 at 19:30 |
ok since official statistics mean nothing in turkey then what is your (or anyone elses) estimate % of non-muslim turks in turkey roughly (are they mainly athiest, chris, jew, etc)
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Either your a slave to what MADE-MAN
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oTToMAn_TurK
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Posted: 18-Oct-2005 at 19:42 |
I have many non-muslim friends whose identities include "Religion: Islam" part.
The Turkish state cannot seperate one person from another just because of his religion.
when you say they cant seperate one person from another becouse of religion do you meen everyone has to include "Religion:Islam" part in there identities? is that what you mean by they cant seperate?
becouse if not then why would people lie about there tru religion/belief in a so called secular state? it doesnt make sense.
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erci
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Posted: 18-Oct-2005 at 19:45 |
%99 I wonder if they did actually counted that.every new born gal
considired muslim in Turkey cos it says so in IDs which actualy
stupid.there you go %99.9999 of population is muslim.don't make a poll,
just count the IDs
how bout percentage of the decreasing of faith? renounce or changing the religion?
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Posted: 18-Oct-2005 at 21:50 |
becouse if not then why would people lie about there tru religion/belief in a so called secular state? it doesnt make sense.
They don't lie, they just don't care about what is written in their IDs.
I think that "Religion" part in the IDs should be removed, it's really meaningless.
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OSMANLI
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Posted: 20-Oct-2005 at 06:23 |
Religion part be scrapped. Just because it has no meaning to you foes not mean that it is not central to what one deems as central to the identity.
Secular state does not meen that the population has no religion. It meens that religion is kept out of state affairs.
"LA ILAHA ILLALA MUHAMADU RASULULAH" "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad (PBUH) is his messenger.
This is the core belief of Muslims. Majority of Turks do believe this, even though many are not practising.
Erci the decreasing of faith is a trend from many past years. The current trend is up. Not a dramatic increase but an increase, just look at west Turkey
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Seko
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Posted: 20-Oct-2005 at 09:33 |
What is the reason for listing religion on an I.D. card? Secular or not, does anyone know when this practice started and if it still fulfiills its intended purpose?
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ok ge
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Posted: 20-Oct-2005 at 13:10 |
Originally posted by Seko
What is the reason for listing religion on an I.D. card? Secular or not, does anyone know when this practice started and if it still fulfiills its intended purpose? |
I think having the religion stated on your ID is a descrimination. A perfect example is the Lebanon Civil War, where each person carried his religion and sect stated on the ID. That made it easier for massacres to inflict civilians as you can just stop any person look in his ID and get him shot right away. An example is the "black Sunday" incident and "Aldamoor" town massacre.
I don't even know what is the point of stating your religion on you ID? How does it help the person carrying?
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Posted: 20-Oct-2005 at 13:38 |
Interesting... I thought anti-secular people wouldn't agree with in this situation. Any Turk who thinks the "Religion" part in the IDs shouldn't be removed?
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Hamoudeh
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Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 13:34 |
For Muslims, the Khilafa is Wajib (necessary) and the establishment thereof is a Fard (obligation). Some say it is a Fard Ayn (an individual duty), the majority maintains it is a Fard Kifaya (a collective duty). Any Sunni Muslim is required to uphold these stands, and as a Sunni Muslim I go with that and maintain that the Khilafa is to be revived. However, I advice to be careful with groups to claim that work for such a revival in political ways alone, such as Hizbu l-Tahrir. They have some good points, but there are doctrinal problems as well as in mentality and approach. It is a commonly increasing misconception that Muslims who believe the Khilafa is to be established and work for it, are sympathizers of such groups.
Ma`salam
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Nick1986
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Posted: 14-Nov-2011 at 21:47 |
A Caliph (chosen by a committee of the most senior Muslim clerics) would bring some much-needed stability to the Islamic world. He would have to be someone all Sunnis respect: a proven descendent of Muhammed, a qualified imam and a relative of the last Ottoman sultan fluent in Arabic, Turkish and English. An exceptional person would be needed for this office, capable of coexisting with the Shia Ayatollah, engaging in diplomacy with the west, raising issues of anti-Muslim discrimination at the UN, and maintaining holy sites. Ideally, his domain should be the independent city of East Jerusalem which could be like the Vatican in Rome with no army but a large bodyguard comprising the bravest and most religious young Muslims
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Ollios
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Posted: 15-Nov-2011 at 05:47 |
bringing back caliphate is an imaginary idea. there is no option to choose specific caliph for all islamic world. the time of king-priest or holy-king pasted. it was an ancient and medieval perspective. however unique international voice is a good idea but it is also exist: the general secretary of organisation of islamic cooperation. in spite of this, it doesn't have enough political power today.
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Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır
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Nick1986
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Posted: 15-Nov-2011 at 20:15 |
If the Caliphate was revived it would be a largely ceremonial role similar to the pope. It would resolve the problem of who owns Jerusalem and give the world's Muslims a figurehead who could both stand up for their rights and issue fatwas against extremists
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Ollios
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Posted: 16-Nov-2011 at 00:52 |
Originally posted by Nick1986
If the Caliphate was revived it would be a largely ceremonial role similar to the pope. |
of course, he would be. However I don't support the pope and apostolic see. It should be limited(not untill death) and be without hollyness. when it is nesserary, people are able to judge him.
Originally posted by Nick1986
It would resolve the problem of who owns Jerusalem |
do you think muslims accept a american-puppet caliph? or American-Israel perspective accept a caliph ideas(because, muslim world opinion is mostly same about Jerusalem: two state-divided option)?
Originally posted by Nick1986
stand up for their rights and issue fatwas against extremists |
In caliphate, there is no large election culture as in christianity, it turned a dynasty in the past so generating a specific figurehead is hard. Secretary of the Islamic organization can do these things instead of caliph without praying too much
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Ellerin Kabe'si var,
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