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Mosquito
Caliph
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Topic: Top 5 Greatest British Leaders Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 17:19 |
1. Oliver Cromwell
2. William Gladstone
3. Winston Churchill
4. Benjamin Disraeli
5.William Pitt, the Younger
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"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 20:46 |
How can you not put Victoria on the list? No-one is even mentioning her!
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 14-Feb-2006 at 20:48 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
How can you not put Victoria on the list? No-one is even mentioning her! |
Though she presided over the peak of British power, I am not sure anyone can attribute the greatness to her personally. Often she was more of a stable and respectable figurehead while it was her Prime Ministers who decided Imperial policy.
I've always found it interesting that the British Empire began under a woman, peaked under a woman and ended under yet another woman.
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Posted: 15-Feb-2006 at 23:00 |
Nobody mentioned
Lawrence Dellaggio
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Paul
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Posted: 16-Feb-2006 at 09:14 |
Originally posted by Steve
Nobody mentioned
Lawrence Dellaggio
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You mean Martin Johnson......
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Cunctator
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Posted: 20-Feb-2006 at 22:21 |
Pitt the Elder (built the empire)
Churchill (model of moral courage)
Elizabeth I (should be called "the Great" -- if we can include strictly English monarchs in this list)
Henry VIII (he set England on its path of development)
Thatcher (restored the "great" to Britain)
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bobjr
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Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 05:44 |
No particular order:
-Winston Churchill -Alfred the Great -Cecil Rhodes -Queen Elizabeth I
Honorable Mention: -Benjamin Disraeli -Charles II
Edited by bobjr - 09-Jun-2008 at 05:46
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Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 07:00 |
Well tecnically you can't add anyone from before 1707 and after 1801 since Britain only came into being in the former and was abolished in the latter to be replaced by the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.
And using British as a synonym for English is bound to get howls of protest from welshmen, Scots and Irish (of the 6 counties type). I remember a few years ago in uni I went to a football match of England (i think it was at Anfield v some south American country) with a friend; an uber patriotic ulsterman, and when they started playing "God save the Queen" the guy started yelling out loud "that thoh UK anthum ya baastards".
Or thats what I think he said, always struggled to understand him.
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Peteratwar
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Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 08:16 |
Originally posted by poirot
My Top Five:
My least favorite Briton: Winston Churchill |
Out of interest why ?
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Chookie
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Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 19:49 |
Originally posted by Sparten
And using British as a synonym for English is bound to get howls of protest from welshmen, Scots...... |
Seconded, thirded and fourthed...... This is the type of thing which
really upsets us. It's a good bit more insulting than calling a
Southerner (US type) a Damnyankee.......
Originally posted by Sparten
and Irish (of the 6 counties type). |
A large percentage of the inhabitants of Ulster consider themselves to British before Irish.
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For money you did what guns could not do.........
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Posted: 10-Jun-2008 at 06:31 |
I take it that you also disapprove of playing the UK anthem at England football games. I think it was at some footballl tournament where one of the other home nations objected to England getting the UK anthem (and flag).
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Chookie
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Posted: 10-Jun-2008 at 19:09 |
Originally posted by Sparten
I take it that you also disapprove of playing the UK anthem at England football games. I think it was at some footballl tournament where one of the other home nations objected to England getting the UK anthem (and flag). |
Not at all - I disapprove of the so-called UK anthem. As far as I am concerned the English can have it. Why? Because of it's history. God save the King/Queen became popular in England during the last Jacobite rising when a Jacobite army of approximately 5,000 - 6,000 invaded England. The last verse of GSTQ is a racist diatribe:- Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen!
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For money you did what guns could not do.........
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Posted: 10-Jun-2008 at 19:34 |
Which is never sung iirc.
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Travis Congleton
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Posted: 10-Jun-2008 at 20:10 |
Just when I think American history [oh ho-hum 200+ years of it] is all messed up, I get to hear the Isle of the Brits' problems in history.
I love it.
Only have a top 4:
1. Winston Churchill
2. Elizabeth I
3. Victoria
4. Margaret Thatcher
I love some of the arguments as to why people shouldn't be considered either. Its like George Washington shouldn't be considered because he was only President for the 13 colonies... opps! I mean, 13 states.
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DSMyers1
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Posted: 10-Jun-2008 at 20:13 |
My top 5, ignoring the English/British deal:
1. King Alfred the Great
2. Queen Elizabeth I
3. Winston Churchill
then a big gap and
4. Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington
5. Henry VII
After that come:
William III Henry V Horatio Nelson Robert Clive John Churchill, Duke of Marlborough William Pitt the Elder Æthelstan Henry I Henry II Oliver Cromwell Edward III Edward I Longshanks Sir Francis Drake Edward, the Black Prince
I guess I need to research all these PMs more.
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Chookie
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Posted: 10-Jun-2008 at 21:21 |
For someone who has stated that he will ignore the "English/British deal" you managed to pick one Dutchman (William III) one Anglo-Saxon monarch who died centuries before England existed as a nation (Alfred the Great b. 849 died .899). The rest, other than Longshanks and Elizabeth Tudor are a job lot of minor historical figures.
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For money you did what guns could not do.........
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DSMyers1
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Posted: 10-Jun-2008 at 21:58 |
Originally posted by Chookie
For someone who has stated that he will ignore the "English/British deal" you managed to pick one Dutchman (William III) one Anglo-Saxon monarch who died centuries before England existed as a nation (Alfred the Great b. 849 died .899). The rest, other than Longshanks and Elizabeth Tudor are a job lot of minor historical figures. |
I know William III was Dutch by birth, but I consider his reign in England instrumental in England's rise to dominance. I have him listed here because of his qualities as a leader of the English.
Alfred the Great, king of the West Saxons, was acknowledged king over the Angles and Saxons (considered "England" at the time); the first to claim the title of "King of England" was Offa in 774; after him Egbert united England in 829. After Athelstan, who united all of Britain under his crown (d. 939), the title of King of England was the primary title used. I don't know what you consider England as a nation, but I think Alfred is close enough.
Those figures aren't minor; many are overlooked when evaluating leaders. As discussed in my Top 100 Leaders thread, I look for leaders who change the course of their nation for better--changing the trajectory of the nation.
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Richard XIII
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Posted: 10-Jun-2008 at 22:06 |
Queen Elisabeth I - the start Queen Victoria - the pick Winston Churchill - revival Oliver Cromwell - wisdom Sir Francis Drake - the spirit
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Mughal e Azam
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Posted: 16-Jun-2008 at 05:12 |
1. James I - created the British Empire 2. Queen Victoria - ruled at the height of Empire 3. Benjamin Disreali - great/savvy Prime Minister 4. Winston Churchill - also great Prime Minister 5. Oliver Cromwell
Edited by Mughal e Azam - 16-Jun-2008 at 05:12
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Mughal e Azam
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Panther
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Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 06:44 |
My personal picks.
1.) Queen Elisabeth I (Her spy network gave her an extreme edge against her rivals.)
2.) Oliver Cromwell (The Lord Protector of the so called short lived Republic. It was a nice try!)
3.) William Pitt (The leading British statesmen of his times.)
4.) Queen Victoria (I don't know why, but i've liked her ever since i married my wife. Hmmm..)
5.) Winston Churchill (Alot of english speaking politicans since... want to be like him, and always fall far short.)
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