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Constantine XI
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Topic: Endings of Persian names Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 08:02 |
In his work the Histories, Herodotus claims that all Persian
names in his day ended in the letter "s". Some examples include Cyrus,
Cambyses, Xerxes, Mardonius etc etc.
Was he correct?
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Zagros
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Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 09:21 |
No. But a lot of them did and the sound was not the same as the S sound. It was 'SH', since this sound did not exist in Greek (and still doesn't) they substituted it with S. This is why Kourosh becomes Kuros (Cyrus), Dariyush - Dariyus etc.
Edited by Zagros - 03-Feb-2007 at 09:23
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Lepidodendron
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Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 09:52 |
Originally posted by Zagros
No. But a lot of them did and the sound was not the same as the S sound. It was 'SH', since this sound did not exist in Greek (and still doesn't) they substituted it with S. This is why Kourosh becomes Kuros (Cyrus), Dariyush - Dariyus etc.
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I believe it was Daryavosh (spelled Darayavahaush, Greek Dareos). There is a comedy by Aristophanes in which a Persian messenger actually tries to speak Greek and substitutes almost every vowel with an -a-. Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the play.
Edited by Lepidodendron - 03-Feb-2007 at 09:52
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 11:42 |
It is difficult to explain but he was certainly not correct.
Singular |
-a stem |
-u stem |
-i stem |
-n stem |
-h stem |
Parsa (Persia) |
Darayatwahu (Darius) |
Frawarti (Phraortes) |
Xshayarshan (Xerxes) |
Ahuramazdah |
nom. |
Parsah |
Darayatwahush |
Frawartish |
Xshayarsha |
Ahuramazdah |
acc. |
Parsam |
Darayatwahum |
Frawartim |
Xshayarsham |
Ahuramazdam |
gen. |
Parsahya |
Darayatwahush |
Frawartish |
Xshayarshaha |
Ahuramazdaha |
There were also "dat., abl., inst., loc., voc., Singular/Dual/Plural, Masculine/Feminine/Neuter"
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Lepidodendron
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Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 12:17 |
O, that is really strange. I thought the name was spelled Darayavaush, which was pronounced Dareyavosh, along with Oramazda for Auramazda. Somewhere in a very grey past I tried to learn a bit of Ancient Persian, and those names served as pronunciation examples in my grammar. It may be that my memory is failing me.
Just to make sure: I believe the phrase "I am Xerxes, king of kings", would run something like "Adam ahmi Xsheyarsha, xshayathiya xshayathiyanam."
By the way, it suddenly occurs to me that the last two words in reversed order would possibly render the modern form "shahanshah", "king of kings", in which -an- is a remnant of the plural genitive. Interesting.
Edited by Lepidodendron - 03-Feb-2007 at 20:23
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 17:45 |
Thanks for clearing that up, I just completed reading the Histories and this was a little thing which stood out and needed proper clarification.
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Xshayathiya
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Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 20:59 |
Originally posted by Lepidodendron
By the way, it suddenly occurs to me that the last two words in reversed order would possibly render the modern form "shahanshah", "king of kings", in which -an- is a remnant of the plural genitive. Interesting. |
That is correct. The word Shah derives from X shayathiya. Where the rest of that long word went i dont know
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Lepidodendron
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Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 23:10 |
Originally posted by Xshayathiya
That is correct. The word Shah derives from Xshayathiya. Where the rest of that long word went i dont know |
Well, xshay[athiy]n[am] xsh[yathiya] may render shahnshah, if there is a stress accent present. Non-stressed syllables tend to disappear in many languages.
Edited by Lepidodendron - 03-Feb-2007 at 23:21
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 04-Feb-2007 at 09:05 |
"Xsh" has been replaced with "Sh" [Xshapa -> Shab (Night)] and "th" -> "h" [Mithra -> Mihr], so "Xshyathiya" was changed to just "Shah".
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DayI
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Posted: 04-Feb-2007 at 09:51 |
hasnt Shahanshah actually have the same meaning with "Khakhan" which is used by Turkic people?
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Zagros
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Posted: 04-Feb-2007 at 10:16 |
Shahanshah means king of kings.
Shah-han - kings
Shah - King
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Tangriberdi
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Posted: 27-Mar-2007 at 21:39 |
So Khakhan also means the king of kings.
It has two words in origin
Khan+Khan
Khan of Khan
Khankhan assumed to be minimized to Khakhan as a title.
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Mordoth
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Posted: 30-Mar-2007 at 14:45 |
As far as i know ; Shahan is another word in persian language =)
And , the suffices of Armenian surnames "-ian " comes from Iranian language .
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