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akritas
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Topic: Bulgarian participation in WW 1 Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 12:57 |
Originally posted by Kapikulu
Originally posted by akritas
The Bulgarian intervention as regard the Greek part was not light at all. Was hard and more severe from the German or the Italian. Just for the record. |
Not really harder and more severe than Italians and Germans during the three-weeks invasion phase of Greece as far as I know, but surely harder and severe during the occupation phase which lasted for around 3 years. |
This is the correct quote regarding the Bulgarian intervention at the WWII
@nikodemos
I know when I start or to finish a flame war, at least from my side
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Krum
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Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 13:15 |
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It is only the dead who have seen the end of war.
Plato
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Spartakus
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Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 13:35 |
Did Bulgaria ethnically cleanse, burn villages and destroy churches like Greece had during the Second Balkan War? |
Bulgaria tried to remove Hellenic populations in Macedonia in favour of her expansionist policies during the 1890's ,the Balkan Wars and WWI.Oh yes,it did.
The Bulgarian occupation of Macedonia was the restoration of justice to all those refugees that have been forced out from their homeland by the barbaric Greek invasion that preceded it. |
Just because you hate my country,it does not make it a worth-noting historical criterium, kid.If you want to spam again,then i suggest leave the forum right now.
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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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Krum
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Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 13:58 |
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It is only the dead who have seen the end of war.
Plato
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akritas
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Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 14:04 |
Originally posted by Spartakus
Just because you hate my country,it does not make it a worth-noting historical criterium, kid.If you want to spam again,then i suggest leave the forum right now. |
Spartacus dont play in the bg_turk trap and his nationalistic behaviour. He is known from the odds.
read and think...not only the below thread but any thread that was open from him and locked
Edited by akritas - 05-Nov-2006 at 14:06
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Isbul
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Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 15:56 |
Now hope that the interest in bulgaria in ww1 is not yet turned to ashes from the flames.
Tutrakan fell, Romania lost around 60000 men.And so Russia had send to help their allies 61st and 115 division, 3th cavalary division, serbo-croatian division.Also the romanians had there five inf. divisions and one cavalary brigade.Bulgaria had three divisions and one cavalary division.The reinforcments of bulgaria consist of 25th ottoman division wich was in terrible shape and one german (or it was austrian?) brigade.Also the entente forces could relly on artillery support from the russian black sea fleet.
On 5 september the russian 61st div unsucsesfully attacked the town of Dobrich.On 6 Sep there were already fights from Dunabe to the black sea coast.Reinforced by two more divisions the russians attacked Dobrich again the town was guarded by iregular soldiers(cooks, sanitars...) and volunteers.The russian attack was turned in to a retreat.The machinegunners at the russian lines mistake the retrating russians for the enemy and opened fire at them.
On 7 sep the serb-croatian div entered in combat.She happen to be thoughest of all and almost maneged to breacktrough but then the cav. div under gen.Kolev attacked from their rear and behind.Almost all of the serb-croat div had been cut down.After the failure the russians retreated in northen dobrudja.After unsucsesfull attack on 17 sep of bulg. third army the bulgarians take defensive positions.On 1 Oct the russian forces several times larger than bulgarian attacked third army.For a whole day third army held their positions, in the afternoon the bulgarian cav.div launced a counter attack and turned the russians in to retreat.
Meanwhile the romanian 3th army embarked in the rear of bulg. 3th army.The two romanian divisions had agains them two companies of border guards.The border guards fight until the evening and retreated.During the night the border guatds launched suprising bayonet attack.Not knowing how much are the attackers the romanians abounden their positions.Thr romanins were in complate choas and their birdge was destroyed by a mine.In their panic the HQ of the rom. army returned the divisions on the other side.On 19 oct the bul. 3th army launched a offensive toward the russian lines and breakthroug on 21 0ct., one russian div. has been destroyed and its banner captured.Latter two more battle banners were added.The chase of the russian forces has been cancled because of heavy raining.In late oct. the russians launched a counter attack.The bulgarian forces were even lesser this time because the 1st div. was on the other side of Dunabe and defeat two romanian divisions at the river of Adrisen and after few days they entered in Bucurest.The russian counter attack was a complate failure.After 5 of January whole dobrudja had been "cleanesed" from the Entente forces.The front was stabilased at the river of Seret in Moldova
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Dampier
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Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 16:34 |
Gentlemen, please stick to the topic at hand. I know I'm not a Moderator but I'm enjoying this thread and reading about Bulgarias role in WW1. I'd like to continue doing so. If you want to discuss the tangent you are takign please create a new thread and debate to your hearts content. Lets not turn this into another Balkans flame war. Please.
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konstantinius
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Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 19:21 |
Originally posted by bg_turk
Originally posted by akritas
The Bulgarian intervention as regard the Greek part was not light at all. Was hard and more severe from the German or the Italian. Just for the record. |
Did Bulgaria ethnically cleanse, burn villages and destroy churches like Greece had during the Second Balkan War?
The Bulgarian occupation of Macedonia was the restoration of justice to all those refugees that have been forced out from their homeland by the barbaric Greek invasion that preceded it.
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Well, the answer is yes, Bulgaria did all of the above. Serbia , Greece and Bulgaria all had paramilitaries in Macedonia just prior to the Balkan wars. Don't tell me that the cetes is a fiction of the imagination of the unfair Greeks. Greeks themselves were not angelic; but the answer to your above question is, yes, Bulgarian forces did all of the above.
Edited by konstantinius - 05-Nov-2006 at 19:22
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" I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so."
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Desperado
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Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 23:15 |
Some pics and info about the Bulgarian WW1 army:
source: Osprey, Man-At-Arms 356 Armies in the Balkans 1914-18
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Desperado
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Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 23:23 |
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Desperado
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Posted: 05-Nov-2006 at 23:44 |
WW1 Bulgarian trench assault groups.
"...The Southern Balkan front was a heavy trench war, with lots of artillery and infantry attacks. There were also assault groups, making sudden attacks on the opposite trenches. The Bulgarian tactic was not only destroying a part of the enemy's trenches and thus preparing path for possible attack, but also capturing alive enemy soldiers, they were considered very good source for information.
These groups were armed with the standart army Mannlicher rifles with ordinary bayonets, also knives, pistols, German stick grenades, various types of explosive matherials, German gas masks, M16 steel helmets.
The groups consisted of ordinary frontline soldiers and officers, but it seems at least the officers were going though some kind of short education for their role, in frontline conditions - here is a picture of young officer to his mother, on the back written: "Dear Mother, Here, you can see the picture of what our craft is at the positions. This photograph is taken in the Assault course at the Division." /Dated January 22th 1918/."
"..Ready to attack. Helmets, stick grenades, rifles, gas masks."
On the back: "A part of our assault group on November 4th 1917"
An assault group at arms. Dated 11 June 1918
"...Sometimes the missions were successfull. An assault group has captured two Brits. Fortunately this one is well documented through the text written on the picture.
The men are from the 84th Infantry Regiment - one of the later formed regiments, with older reserve offciers, called back to service. That small assult group from that regiment was led by the quite older officer on hte picture, Poruchyk /Lt./ Boris Abadjiev. The successfull attack was made in September 1917, 3 hours after Midnight. On the back side it is also said, that the whole attack was made by 30 men, and those Englishmen were captured by him together with 9 of his men. He was not a show-off, he signed himself only as "Yours, Boris, grandson of the Bismarck, cavalier of the Bravery order, the hunter of Englishmen..."
"...on 20 November 1917 an assult group from the 18th Infantry Regiment has captured POWs from a different sort - French."
source: Gentleman's military interest club
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Dampier
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Posted: 06-Nov-2006 at 04:58 |
Excellent photographs and information. Cheers.
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Brainstorm
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Posted: 06-Nov-2006 at 05:42 |
Originally posted by Krum
It was not a superpower but it was stronger than greece and serbia together.It was a fact.We lost thanks to stupid politicians and bad allies.How we like to say we won most of the battles but lost most of the wars. |
One of the Basic elements of every Nationalism! Greece was powerfull and brave ,but the bad Allies and politicians lead to the loss in 1922. Turkey was powerfull and brave bad the bad Westerns and sultan split the country in 1914. Bulgaria was brave and powerfull but it was twice humiliated because the bad Allies and politicians. etc etc etc. We are the bravest! Its always the other's fault!
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Brainstorm
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Posted: 06-Nov-2006 at 05:46 |
PS: This guy Bg_Turk is unbelievable! He is a Bulgarian when he wants to blame Greeks and Turk when he wants to blame Bulgarians! The funniest is that there are many naive enough to reply his provokations!
Edited by Brainstorm - 06-Nov-2006 at 05:50
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bg_turk
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Posted: 06-Nov-2006 at 08:50 |
Originally posted by Dampier
Excellent photographs and information. Cheers. |
I agree. Thanks, Desperado.
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bg_turk
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Posted: 06-Nov-2006 at 08:54 |
Originally posted by Brainstorm
PS: He is a Bulgarian when he wants to blame Greeks and Turk when he wants to blame Bulgarians!
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Well, I would like to think that personal opinion should transcend, and not be limitted to, one's ethnicity. I have always thought lowly of persons who attack the ethnicity of their opponents, rather than the points they make.
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xristar
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Posted: 06-Nov-2006 at 13:20 |
bg_turk, first, if you have not realized it yet, the cleansing of central macedonia by Greece (true) was parallel to the cleansing of eastern Romylia by Bulgaria, and later of Thrace. You accept the first fact, but you deny the second.
Thrace was not an ethnically bulgarian region. It was mainly greek (and, well, turkish).
Bulgaria tried to bulgarianize it during the occupation of WWII, making that occupation different from the german and italian (which however should not be underestimated, especially the german).
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Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
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Krum
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Posted: 06-Nov-2006 at 13:32 |
Originally posted by xristar
bg_turk, first, if you have not realized it yet, the cleansing of centralmacedonia by Greece (true) was parallel to the cleansing of eastern Romylia by Bulgaria, and later of Thrace. You accept the first fact, but you deny the second.
Thrace was not an ethnicallybulgarian region. It was mainly greek (and, well, turkish).
Bulgaria tried to bulgarianize it during the occupation of WWII, making that occupation different from the german and italian (which however should not be underestimated, especially the german). |
Hey hey hey!!!!! "cleansing of eastern Romylia by Bulgaria".This is total bul......sh*ts.That region was absolutely bulgarian.Everything else is ridiculous and not serious.So stop talk funny things."It was mainly greek"
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It is only the dead who have seen the end of war.
Plato
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bg_turk
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Posted: 06-Nov-2006 at 14:09 |
Originally posted by xristar
bg_turk, first, if you have not realized it yet, the cleansing of central macedonia by Greece (true) was parallel to the cleansing of eastern Romylia by Bulgaria, and later of Thrace. You accept the first fact, but you deny the second. |
I deny nothing. No doubt there were Greeks in Thrace. On the Bulgarian side they were mainly concentreated the Black Sea region (there was a big Greek comunity in Ahtopol for example), but their number was in no way comparable to the number of Bulgarians expelled from Macedonia and the transfer took place mostly in an orderly fassion unlike the expulsion of Bulgarians from Macedonia, who were literally chased out of their burning homes and villages.
I hope I do not need to quote the relevant passages from the Carnegie report again.
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Spartakus
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Posted: 06-Nov-2006 at 14:35 |
We did not "cleanse" anything.We made evacuations of certain areas from Bulgarian populations and we exchanged then and those who hand't left yet with Hellens of Bulgaria.The numbers are 50.000 Bulgarians and 30.000 Hellens.30.000 Hellens,which means that Hellenic presence in Bulgaria in that time was more than vivid.
Concerning the Carnegie report,ok nice poem you have learned there.The only thing you know from school is the Carnegie report? Just because you have some kind or report,this does not mean that this report is the freaking Bible!It's one report ,only one report which is under heavy doubt.
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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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