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Menippos
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Topic: Support the Return of the Parthenon Marbles Posted: 03-Aug-2006 at 17:19 |
Originally posted by Yiannis
Originally posted by Ellinas
no Olympic flame for the London Olympics before the marbles are back. |
Or we could kidnap the queen, that should make the Brits return them
Ellinas, have you lost your marbles? (excuse the pun, it was too obvious) Do you think negotiations and friendly relations are possible to maintain with ultimatums or blackmail??? |
No, Yiannis, YOU have lost your marbles... Knowing the modern Brits, if we'd kidnap the Queen of England, we would probably be asked to keep her... And we already have Queen Dimitra Liani-Papandreou to take care of...
Edited by Menippos - 03-Aug-2006 at 17:22
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CARRY NOTHING
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craig.melson
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Posted: 26-Aug-2006 at 16:14 |
No. The story and reaction of the Elgin marbles and other treasures has
to be applied across Europe. If the marbles are returned, all
other treasures should also be. Being in London, i like them
there. It reveals alot about our past, attitudes to foriegners in
that time and is a valuable insight to the history of collecting.
As for logistics, its a risk, but should be easy enough to transport
them. However thats not the point, its part of Britains heritage,
a key part of the museum an appreciated artefact.
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history is bunk
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Jeru
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Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 17:09 |
Originally posted by craig.melson
No.its part of Britains heritage, a key part of the museum an appreciated artefact.
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I geuss British build the Parthenon,so it's your heritage.
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konstantinius
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Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 21:11 |
[[/QUOTE]
What France conquered, belongs to France. It's not our fault those nations were too weak or not smart enough to hold on to their heritage. [/QUOTE] Ah, yes, dreams of empire die hard...maybe France should return to Algeria, then...
Edited by konstantinius - 05-Sep-2006 at 21:15
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" I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so."
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Gun Powder Ma
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Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 21:25 |
I prefer professional care for the pieces in the exile at London anytime over amateurish treatment at home in Greece. Countries should not only claim all things back, they should also have the financial and other means to take care of them properly which I doubt somehow in a country which finetuned its statistics to get into the Euro zone.
Besides, it can be argued that at the time there was even no Greek state.
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Neoptolemos
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Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 02:01 |
Originally posted by Gun Powder Ma
I prefer professional care for the pieces in the exile at London anytime over amateurish treatment at home in Greece. Countries should not only claim all things back, they should also have the financial and other means to take care of them properly which I doubt somehow in a country which finetuned its statistics to get into the Euro zone. |
As Yiannis wrote in the previous page, replying to a post raising similar 'concerns' like yours: "Greece is at the frontline of archaeological research. The new Acropolis Museums, designed by Bernard Tschumi, which will be ready soon is a state of the art one: http://www.greece.org/parthenon/marbles/museum.htm" As for the Euro-zone thing, not only this is irrelevant with the discussion, but also you're not very well informed about the subject.
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Gun Powder Ma
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Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 15:05 |
As badly informed as the EU was about Greece's finances? ;-)
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Neoptolemos
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Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 01:18 |
Originally posted by Gun Powder Ma
As badly informed as the EU was about Greece's finances? ;-)
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If your information made you believe that Greece does not have "the financial and other means to take care of them properly", then you are more badly informed that eurostat.
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Jeru
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Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 16:26 |
Originally posted by Gun Powder Ma
I prefer professional care for the pieces in the exile at London anytime over amateurish treatment at home in Greece. Countries should not only claim all things back, they should also have the financial and other means to take care of them properly which I doubt somehow in a country which finetuned its statistics to get into the Euro zone.
Besides, it can be argued that at the time there was even no Greek state.
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Yes we all know how gentle the british empire was with the marbles,sawing them off.Not to mention of decades of false treatment by the London museum.
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Komnenos
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Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 02:11 |
The University of Heidelberg in Gemany has returned a piece of the Parthenon to the Greek government. It's only 3x5 inches big, but it's a start.
In exchange we want all the little pieces of the Berlin Wall back that Greek tourists chipped off in the 90s.
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[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
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akritas
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Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 02:35 |
Originally posted by Komnenos
The University of Heidelberg in Gemany has returned a piece of the Parthenon to the Greek government. It's only 3x5 inches big, but it's a start.
In exchange we want all the little pieces of the Berlin Wall back that Greek tourists chipped off in the 90s. |
You didn't tell us how the Heidelberg found this piece of Parthenon Komnenos.
As about the pieces were chipped or bought from Germans?
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konstantinius
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Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 22:06 |
Originally posted by Gun Powder Ma
I prefer professional care for the pieces in the exile at London anytime over amateurish treatment at home in Greece. Countries should not only claim all things back, they should also have the financial and other means to take care of them properly which I doubt somehow in a country which finetuned its statistics to get into the Euro zone.
Besides, it can be argued that at the time there was even no Greek state.
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Financial means to maintain the marbles? Well, we'll get them from the EU,of course! They are a European treasure after all!! By the way, do you know that Greece has the highest per capita number of archaeologists in the EU? Of course a lot of them work abroad but are still included in the statistics,a fact that raised questions about the validity of the information. Some argued that only Greek archaeologists who work in Greece should be counted. Anyway, point is, there's a lot of technical staff to take care of marbles. Last time I checked, portions of the Great Wall of China are disintegrating and there are preservation questions as to the policies of the Chinese goverment. This does not raise demands to remove the Wall abroad where it could be looked after better, does it?
Edited by konstantinius - 21-Oct-2006 at 22:07
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" I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so."
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Knights
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Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 21:14 |
I believe the Parthenon Marbles are very secure and being out to good use in the British Museum. They provide a good source of information, education and awareness about the Ancient Greeks and their Parthenon, to the numerous tourists, school groups and historians who visit there each year. The British do not intend to steal Greece's History, but to preserve it in a safe environment.
On the Contrary, I do feel the Greeks have a right to the marbles too. The current remains of the Acropolis and Parthenon and probably sufficient as a tourist destination and archaealogical hotspot, but the return would add to the heritage.
If the matter can be resolved through a deal involving the British Museum holding on to only certain - less neccessary - pieces/marbles and everything else be sent back to Greece, then I would be happy with that, but not completely content.
A good idea would be an identical reconstruction in the British Museum, therefore it can still provide the same educational and historical purpose, while all the pieces are returned to the Parthenon. This is ethically and historically fair in my opinion.
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konstantinius
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Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 08:20 |
OK then, let us slip a couple passed your goalie in the 2008 Euro and we'll call it even, eh?
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" I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so."
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Yiannis
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Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 06:13 |
Swede gives back Acropolis marble
A retired Swedish gym teacher is the toast of Greece after returning a piece of sculpted marble taken from the Acropolis more than a century ago.
Birgit Wiger-Angner's family held the marble for 110 years, but she decided to return it to Athens after hearing about Greece's Elgin marbles campaign
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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The_Jackal_God
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Posted: 14-Dec-2006 at 13:37 |
Museums seem like the last vestiges of imperialism. What is wrong with a country holding onto its own treasures of its cultural heritage? so far maintenance, economics, and education have been mentioned, and the only valid one imo is maintanence. Why do the Greeks have to pay the price of education for people visiting a british museum to learn about (ancient) Greece? internet and photography are amazing alternatives to holding onto Greek relics; besides, how many people go to museums to learn? only smart people go, and well, they're already smart. Economics? boo hoo imperialist museums won't continue to make money off their pillaging. If this is a valid reason, i say let the Scandinavians return to their long boats. Maintanence, valid, but as the above shows, the Greeks are well capable of it. National GDP isn't the only factor in maintanence capability. I've heard the Vatican has the best work in restoration (of art).
but if Britain doesn't give them back, how bout doling out pieces of Stonehenge then. LOL that those marbles are part of British heritage. So was slavery and racism and imperialism, but you let go of those. Let go of this too, as the American example shows, it'll boost your PR. Shoot, America (as the US) has virtually no history to boast, just of those whom we displaced, and yet we returned the mummy. Is the British museum skeptical that British culture has enough of its own worth seeing, that it needs to hold on to plunder from others?
a more complex question, along these lines: i heard that marble plundered by the Latins in 1204-5 from Constantinople was used in building in Rome, specifically in the Vatican - should those be returned, and should they be forwarded to a new address (seeing as Constantinople is not ... well you know) or should the Vatican designate a Greek name or use to parts of the buildings using the pillaged marble?
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Yiannis
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Posted: 31-Jan-2007 at 03:50 |
Greek pupils demand Elgin Marbles |
Organisers plan similar protests in London and elsewhere | Greek schoolchildren have demonstrated at the Acropolis in Athens to demand that the UK returns marble sculptures taken by Lord Elgin 200 years ago.
| http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6313953.stm
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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GENERAL PARMENION
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Posted: 22-Mar-2007 at 06:57 |
As a Greek , i definately agree on Elgin Marlbles being returned back.But i think that is the least we should be woried about.There are so many archeological treasures all around Greece that we don't give a sh*t about , victims of time passing by , thousands of others that are not excavated and the ones that are , where propably much better being hiden where they where.
Many archeological treasures where being looted , why mention just theese marlbles.I find it rediculus wanting back the Elgin Marbles back when we can't even take care of the archeological treasures we have here.
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Flipper
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Posted: 22-Mar-2007 at 09:25 |
People you forget that some of those marbles were chopped out of the building. They were not found 6 feet under the ground. We try to restore Parthenon and this will probably take up to 50 years. A part of this restoration process is to put the marbles back in the "aetoma" (decorative part of the roof).
The truth is that a lot of ancient artifacts are abandoned somewhere in Greece. The truth is also that no museum can store all those artifacts. However, small communities build their own museums. Around my village lies one of the most rich areas in artifacts in macedonia. Every single village around has its own small museum excibiting them. The problem is rather local that general in Greece. Some districts take very well care of the artifacts while others don't.
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Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
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Yiannis
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Posted: 22-Mar-2007 at 13:06 |
Originally posted by Flipper
A part of this restoration process is to put the marbles back in the "aetoma" (decorative part of the roof).
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On the issue raised by Parmenion, I can only repeat what a friend of mine, who is an archaeologist, said when I asked him why he doesn't ask to go on expeditions in other countries. He said: "are you nuts? there's so much work in Greece that we can never be able to complete even the most pressing domestic requests. In most cases, we simply go, investigate and if the find is not of paramount importance, we simply re-bury it and mark the place to be excavated by the future generations. In the warehouses there's som much material already excavated but not analysed yet, that can support two generations of archaologists without any new excavations. So there's no time to work abroad and we need all the help we can get from foreign colleagues". He also said that because of their great experience, Greek archaeologists were praised abroad and are regularly requested to work in foreign expeditions, a request that most of them have to decline.
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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