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TMPikachu
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Topic: Assassins Posted: 12-Oct-2004 at 15:13 |
unconquorable? Poo! The Mongols systematically destroyed every 'unconquorable' Eagle's Nest and pretty much destroyed the organization of the Hashashin
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Posted: 11-Dec-2004 at 01:05 |
yes i did do that, mongolians had the best orginization, trust, strategy and self sufficiencey by far of any army that ever lived including modern ones today.
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pytheas
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Posted: 14-Dec-2004 at 23:03 |
Also reference the name "The Old Man of The Mountain" regarding their leader. This a name given to whomever ruled the citadel at Alamut in the Elburtz Mountains of what is now Iran. A few books I recommend on the subject that can definitely fall into the topical category of either Islamic history AND Medieval history, seeing as how the crusades were one of the fundamental institutions that shaped the period in question, not to mention modern events. All one has to do is recall President Bush's uttering the word "crusade" in one his speaches early in the War on Terrorism. How many Muslims probably shuddered in cultural memory of the crusades and the historical conotations to the use of the word to describe what the U.S was apparently embarking on? We are the recipiants of a long tradition, Muslim and Christian alike of extremisms. The Crusaders and the Assassins were two examples of that extremism. Please reference the below listed books for further information on the Crusades and the Assassins.
1. Riley-Smith, J. The Oxford illustrated History of the Crusades. Oxford University Press, 2001 ed. (Also see this author's other publications on the subject).
2. Lewis, B. The Assassins . Basic Books, 1967 (2003 ed.).
3. Maalouf, A. The Crusades Through Arab Eyes. Schocken Books, 1985.
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Truth is a variant based upon perception. Ignorance is derived from a lack of insight into others' perspectives.
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Posted: 03-Jan-2005 at 11:22 |
Originally posted by Imperator Invictus
What was the political relation between the Assasins and neighbooring
states? If they conducted so much terror I find it hard to believe they
were not conquered before the Mongols.
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Believe me Imperator they tried! But as the above example posted by
Berosus shows it wasent so easy and the Assassins survived most of the
time by staying one step ahead of their enemies.
Even the great Salahuddin set out to destroy them (twice) but gave up
after he saw and understood Alamut and power these Hashish-smokers
wielded.
btw this is a really cool thread... everyone chipping in a little bits and bobs they know about this group that has been shrouded in mystery.
just to add... Even though the Mongols under Halaku eventually suceeded
in penetrating Alamut (long after Hasan-i-Sabbahs death) the Syrian
branch of the Order still survived. That was eventually destroyed by
the Mamluke Prince, Sultan Baybars who also defeated the Mongols. But
still the Hashashin were not completely finished, infact a descendant
of the great Hasan-i-Sabbah (founder and leader of the Assassins) still
known today as the 'Aga Khan Dynasty'. Ofcourse the Aga Khans are no
longer Assassins, infact they are known to have a long history of
friendship with the British Government and today they concentrate
mainly on philanthropy and charitable activities. Abit like the
Rothschilds!
but the legacy still remains, some say Osama Bin Laden founded his
Al-Qaida Network based on the Assassins of Alamut and took inspiration
from Hasan i Sabbah.
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Mira
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Posted: 16-Jan-2006 at 15:16 |
I'm bumping this thread up because I find the topic to be very intriguing.
Has anyone read "The Assassin Legends," by Farhad Daftary? He's supposedly an authority on the subject, but I'm not sure.
Also, Amin Maalouf introduces a new theory to explain the history behind the name of the cult; the Assassins.
Quoting a couple of paragraphs from his book, Samarkand:
"So unreal were these scenes that it was often said that Hassan's men
were drugged. How otherwise could it be explained that they went
to their deaths with a smile? Some credence was given to the
assertion that they were acting under the influence of hashish, and it
was Marco Polo who popularized this idea in the West. Their
enemies in the Muslim world would contemptuously call them hash-ishiyun,
"hashish-smokers"; some Orientalists thought that this was the origin
of the word "assassin," which in many European languages has become
synonymous with murderer. The myth of the "Assassins" was more
terrifying yet.
The truth is different. According to texts that have come down to us from Alamut, Hassan liked to call his disciples Assassiyun, meaning people who are faithful to the Assass, the "foundation" of the faith. This is the word, misunderstood by foreign travelers, that seemed similar to "hashish."
Hassan Sabbah indeed had a passion for plants and he had a miraculous
knowledge of their curative, sedative, or stimulative characteristics
[...] However, we must go by the evidence, in spite of the tenacity and
allure of tradition: the Assassins had no drug other than
straightforward faith, which was constantly reinforced by the intense
instruction, the most efficient organization, and the strictest
apportionment of tasks."
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Zagros
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Posted: 16-Jan-2006 at 15:43 |
They were definately not pot heads, you can barely get up off ur ass on the stuff.
And the mongols probably succeeded because of their very unusual and cruel tactics in siege warfare, ie marching prisoners in front of their advancing troops so that the defenders would not fire. Most likely the bulk of the prisoners were women and children.
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Mira
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Posted: 16-Jan-2006 at 15:56 |
It makes sense, coz "modern" suicide attackers don't get high before blowing themselves up.
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Maju
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Posted: 16-Jan-2006 at 16:29 |
Assassiyun makes sense. Good point Mira ,
sadly not usually mentioned in the accounts who seem to prefer the
sensationalistic and unorthodox nature of the cult. Some even go to the
point of deauthroizing any relation with modern suicide attackers,
maybe because Assassins acted mostly against other Muslims, always on
the exclussive behalf of their sect.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Mira
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Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 03:27 |
Originally posted by Maju
Assassiyun makes sense. Good point Mira ,
sadly not usually mentioned in the accounts who seem to prefer the
sensationalistic and unorthodox nature of the cult. Some even go to the
point of deauthroizing any relation with modern suicide attackers,
maybe because Assassins acted mostly against other Muslims, always on
the exclussive behalf of their sect.
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You're right.
I'm sure I read somewhere about the Templer Knights' involvement with
the Assassins, but that was only because they feared them and viewed
them as a threat? It is also believed that Raymond II and Conrad had
been victims of the Assassins.
Salahulddin (Saladin), after receiving two death threats, apparently
heeded the Assassins' warning, and tried to maintain good relations
with them.
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Zagros
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Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 07:06 |
Interesting thought I just had.
Latins do not possess the H sound in their language and the word was taken to the west by latins. Assassiyun (Assassian) could be a pluralisation (the ian suffix pluralises it) in Persian of "hassas" means sensitive, they could have been the sensitive avengers.
But then again they do not have the "sh" sound either and replace it with an "s" sound.
The word could just be derived from Hassanian, i.e. followers of Hassan.
Edited by Zagros
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Maju
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Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 09:51 |
Originally posted by Mira
Originally posted by Maju
Assassiyun makes sense. Good point Mira ,
sadly not usually mentioned in the accounts who seem to prefer the
sensationalistic and unorthodox nature of the cult. Some even go to the
point of deauthroizing any relation with modern suicide attackers,
maybe because Assassins acted mostly against other Muslims, always on
the exclussive behalf of their sect.
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You're right.
I'm sure I read somewhere about the Templer Knights' involvement with
the Assassins, but that was only because they feared them and viewed
them as a threat? It is also believed that Raymond II and Conrad had
been victims of the Assassins. |
Yes but, due to the organization of Crusaders, they had only a limited
impact, as most leaders could be easily replaced. Anyhow, their policy
was mostly to keep and expand their power using death-threats and
assassination when necessary. According to one book I read on them,
their tactics could work rather well among Muslims, because of the type
of organization was heavily dependent on individual leaders, somthing
that didn't happen to Europeans, at least not in the same manner.
Salahulddin (Saladin), after receiving two death threats, apparently
heeded the Assassins' warning, and tried to maintain good relations
with them.
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Yes he did. There are several stories about how it happened but the one
I like more is that which says that the very bodyguards of Salahdin
were assassin agents themselves. Whatever the truth they surely managed
to impress him in a manner that he decided better to accept the
status-quo.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Mira
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Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 11:28 |
Originally posted by Zagros
Interesting thought I just had.
Latins do not possess the H sound in their language and the word was
taken to the west by latins. Assassiyun (Assassian) could
be a pluralisation (the ian suffix pluralises it) in
Persian of "hassas" means sensitive, they could have been the
sensitive avengers.
But then again they do not have the "sh" sound either and replace it with an "s" sound.
The word could just be derived from Hassanian, i.e. followers of Hassan. |
Interesting theory! *thumbs up*
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