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ulrich von hutten
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Topic: Romans vs Germans Posted: 06-Nov-2005 at 12:02 |
however , who knows the really fellings ,ideas and aims of the germans.
they couldnt wrote down neither their history nor their thoughts.
but at 9ac they defeated the roman legions at the so called
varus-battle. the victory was surely not a sign of the german dominanc
, but of the roman ignoranc. but latest excravations at kalriese ,the
place it happens ,shown that there were no german countrymen ,who beat
the romans , but well trained germans in roman uniforms. let their
bones rest in peace and think to the second italian - german battle in 1970
wc in mexico.
Edited by ulrich von hutten
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Posted: 06-Nov-2005 at 13:27 |
The only reasons battle like Carrhae and Adrianople are so famous is because they are so unique and rare...That is, Romans loosing so badly...Overall they did have the best system and the most successAnd there were many other great powers too...Germans, Persians, and Ottomans...etc.
Edited by Komnenos with an unofficial warning sent via PM.
Edited by Komnenos
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Belisarius
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Posted: 06-Nov-2005 at 23:45 |
This is true. Anti-Romans alway raise the arguments of such
catastrophic defeats like Carrhae, Adrianople, and perhaps a couple of
dozen more. On the other hand, there are hundreds of battles in which
the Romans defeated the enemy as badly, or even more badly, as they
lost in these few defeats.
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Posted: 08-Nov-2005 at 23:25 |
I think everybody says that Rome was the best-just becouse In fact in the world, if u ganna gather all the Ancient History books, half of them will be books which were dedicated to Rome, and even 1% will not be about Scythians, Sarmatians, Numidians, Goths and so on.
That is the main reason.
But nobody thinks that the was German states too, which fought and defated plenty of roman legioners, and died for their IDEA.
I do not wanna say that Romans were best, becouse they were not, they just were one of the best, that is it
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 09-Nov-2005 at 01:41 |
Originally posted by Bayazit
I think everybody says that Rome was the best-just
becouse In fact in the world, if u ganna gather all the Ancient History
books, half of them will be books which were dedicated to Rome, and
even 1% will not be about Scythians, Sarmatians, Numidians, Goths and
so on.
That is the main reason.
But nobody thinks that the was German states too, which fought and defated plenty of roman legioners, and died for their IDEA.
I do not wanna say that Romans were best, becouse they were not, they just were one of the best, that is it |
Thanks again, Janissary.
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Heraclius
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Posted: 09-Nov-2005 at 10:39 |
This guy just doesnt know when to quit
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A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
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Komnenos
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Posted: 18-Nov-2005 at 11:46 |
Originally posted by ulrich von hutten
. but latest excravations at kalriese ,the
place it happens ,shown that there were no german countrymen ,who beat
the romans , but well trained germans in roman uniforms.
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Never heard this story, could you please give a bit more detail.
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[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
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Belisarius
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Posted: 18-Nov-2005 at 13:09 |
Originally posted by Heraclius
This guy just doesnt know when to quit |
Well, you really must admire his tenacity. A lesser man in his situation would have just broken down and become more open-minded.
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ulrich von hutten
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Posted: 18-Nov-2005 at 14:08 |
Originally posted by Komnenos
Never heard this story, could you please give a bit more detail. |
for futher informations please kontact www.varusschlacht.de
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Drusus
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Posted: 01-Dec-2005 at 22:48 |
I wouldn't go so far to say that the Romans mostly thrashed the Germans by
just looking at the figures of dead in each battle. I agree that the Romans
were greater but often these battles were closer than statistics suggest.
Most casualties in Ancient battles actually came from the killing of soldiers
who were routing.
Oh and I think the reason the Romans were so successful in these battles
was because the legions were successful in spite of their generals, not
becasue of them. I know that there are many examples of grat generals who
led their troops to victory, but many times the romans won in spite of
medicore leadership and this was, I think one of the reasons for success.
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Genghis_Kan
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Posted: 08-Dec-2005 at 18:52 |
I think the Romans and the Germans ar quite evenly handed. The Romans have discipline,ar well armoured, highly trained and fight in formations. On the hand, the Germans ar aggressive, have high mobility, good fighters. However, if the Romans fight tactically, they should beat the Germans.
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Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 20:48 |
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Originally posted by Praetorian
"The Romans. They had discipline, the Germans did not. The Germans were fierce individual fighters, the Romans were fierce group fighters. Obviously, in massed numbers, the side that fights as a group will triumph over the side that does not.
The Romans only really lost when they faced insuperable odds or screwed up badly, like in Teutoberg. Varus was an idiot. |
What about the slaughtering of 50,000 Romans in Cannae by Hannibal?
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Imperator Invictus
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Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 20:54 |
I guess that was a time when they screwed up badly.
As was mentioned earlier, battles like Cannae are famous because they were rare battles in which Romans screwed up really badly.
The Romans won most of their battles against Barbarians until near the end of the Empire.
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Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 19:12 |
I would vote for Romans
If Germans could make such army as Rome did, then they could also be the best.
In fact, if any enemy of Roman Empire was weak and had not such army, it is their fault, if they had a good army, then Rome was not THE BEST
am i right?
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Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 19:16 |
And also, it was not easy for Rome to capture
It was not easy for legion to fight against celt which holds 3 times bigger sword in his hands
I would say, it was Roman discipline and experience that won battles
if we'll mention, we'll see that, the battles that Rome fouht, they lost very few men, and battles that they lost, they lost almost all the men
That give us a key word-unexperienced generals or wrong tactical choise
Why Romans could not win Hannibal in Cannae, but They could do it in Zama???
Becouse Scippio chosed better tactics that those 2 legats did (sorry i forgot the name)
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mars
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Posted: 28-Dec-2005 at 16:39 |
Originally posted by Kafkazli
if we'll mention, we'll see that, the battles that Rome fouht, they lost very few men, and battles that they lost, they lost almost all the men
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This was no strange here, in the ancient battle, most of soldiers were killed in the one-side slaughter after line of his side was broken , as Romans always said "whatever odds you faces, if you could manage to hold your line, face the enemy with weapon in hand, you will be safe"
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Iranian41ife
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Posted: 29-Dec-2005 at 00:31 |
the whole roman vs germans thing reminds me of two things.
1) how the romans lost every battle against hte greeks who had settled italy, yet still won the war.
2) how the USA won every battle during vietnam and still lost the war.
the romans suffered the same thing, they won every battle but in the end, they could not replenish their troops while the germans kept coming back for more. over and over again the romans lost troops they couldnt replace, much like sparta duing their war with thebes (which they lost and were obliterated basically). in the end, it all came down to numbers.
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Socrates
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Posted: 30-Dec-2005 at 03:41 |
A good source for this appears to be "Germania" by Tacitus...some interesting observations made by Tacitus about Germans.Appearently,Grmans used to laugh at the size of Roman soldiers(maybe this is not Tacitus).Two more very inter. things-when germans got drunk,they didn't quarell with eachother like Romans did-they would often kill eachother without prior argument;this is nice-they seemed to care more for their women then men-Romans knew that and used it constantly-they kidnapped their women and blackmail their husbands-poor sods did everything requested;but when romans kidnapped one of rheir male relatives,they didn't give a dime-"kill him,so what?"...
Anyone here read Germania...?
Edited by Socrates
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HistoryGuy
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Posted: 15-Jan-2006 at 18:20 |
That battle in 9AD was basically a massacre since the Romans didn't know how to fight in enclosed spaces. They only knew how to fight in open fields.
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هیچ مردی تا به حال به شما درباره خدا گفته.
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 16-Jan-2006 at 23:54 |
Originally posted by Socrates
A good source for this appears to be
"Germania" by Tacitus...some interesting observations made by Tacitus
about Germans.Appearently,Grmans used to laugh at the size of Roman
soldiers(maybe this is not Tacitus).Two more very inter. things-when
germans got drunk,they didn't quarell with eachother like Romans
did-they would often kill eachother without prior argument;this is
nice-they seemed to care more for their women then men-Romans knew
that and used it constantly-they kidnapped their women and
blackmail their husbands-poor sods did everything requested;but when
romans kidnapped one of rheir male relatives,they didn't give a
dime-"kill him,so what?"...
Anyone here read Germania...? |
I haven't read it, but about the height thing archaeological evidence
suggests that the Germans had an average height of just two inches more
than the Romans.
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